Advanced Breeding Questions

[BlackMagickGenetics]

Sorry I had to start this thread but I could not find an answer for my question by any other means.

Is it possible to turn an Auto into a Photoperiod? Is their a way to stop or delete the trait of autoflowering with any techniques or spray's?

[Dr3@m]

Hello BlackMagic,

The only way you could turn an Auto into a Photoperiod, in order to stop or delete a trait of Autoflowering, would be to cross it, with a Non-Auto... Then you would have roughfly 50% Auto, 50% Non Auto as a result with the new seeds.

[BlackMagickGenetics]

4 hours ago, Dr3@m said:

Hello BlackMagic,

The only way you could turn an Auto into a Photoperiod, in order to stop or delete a trait of Autoflowering, would be to cross it, with a Non-Auto... Then you would have roughfly 50% Auto, 50% Non Auto as a result with the new seeds.

Any Photos to best do this with? I would like to breed the auto phenotype into a Photoperiod with minimal loss of pheno from the auto.

[Cannabissapean]

Why bother?

Autos are created by crossing Ruderalis into various other superior strains or hybrids pretty much only to instill into the following generations, the trait of automatic flowering.  The Ruderalis strains and crosses usually bring with them reduced potency or other less than desireable traits, such that they have to be painstakingly crossed and re-crossed and back-crossed with other superior strains in order to re-introduce better characteristics, in the end, only to finally achieve a stabilized automatic feature within a strain that usually still doesn't compare against its well-developed photoperiod giants.

If you want to rub out the automatic trait, I would imagine it wouldn't be worth the effort to start with the Auto, but rather better to start with the excellent photoperiod giants to begin with.

It sounds like you want to start with a Chihuahua and work for generations with the goal in mind of eventually breeding him into a Great Dane. 

 

[BlackMagickGenetics]

I want to transfer if possible a phenotype from the auto into a Photoperiod. I have tons of pollen collected to work with from the Auto's I selected so I won't have to reverse any more females for a good time. My goal is to have a consistent Purple photoperiod. 

[BlackMagickGenetics]

30 minutes ago, BlackMagickGenetics said:

On 1/2/2017 at 2:53 PM, Cannabissapean said:

Why bother?

Autos are created by crossing Ruderalis into various other superior strains or hybrids pretty much only to instill into the following generations, the trait of automatic flowering.  The Ruderalis strains and crosses usually bring with them reduced potency or other less than desireable traits, such that they have to be painstakingly crossed and re-crossed and back-crossed with other superior strains in order to re-introduce better characteristics, in the end, only to finally achieve a stabilized automatic feature within a strain that usually still doesn't compare against its well-developed photoperiod giants.

If you want to rub out the automatic trait, I would imagine it wouldn't be worth the effort to start with the Auto, but rather better to start with the excellent photoperiod giants to begin with.

It sounds like you want to start with a Chihuahua and work for generations with the goal in mind of eventually breeding him into a Great Dane. 

 

Another question canna. Why is the phenotypes so dominant with Autoflowers? It seems very easy to get a Purple pheno with the right strains without temp drop but it seems hard as hell to get a Purple Photoperiod

[BlackMagickGenetics]

On 2.1.2017 at 8:53 PM, Cannabissapean said:

Why bother?

Autos are created by crossing Ruderalis into various other superior strains or hybrids pretty much only to instill into the following generations, the trait of automatic flowering.  The Ruderalis strains and crosses usually bring with them reduced potency or other less than desireable traits, such that they have to be painstakingly crossed and re-crossed and back-crossed with other superior strains in order to re-introduce better characteristics, in the end, only to finally achieve a stabilized automatic feature within a strain that usually still doesn't compare against its well-developed photoperiod giants.

If you want to rub out the automatic trait, I would imagine it wouldn't be worth the effort to start with the Auto, but rather better to start with the excellent photoperiod giants to begin with.

It sounds like you want to start with a Chihuahua and work for generations with the goal in mind of eventually breeding him into a Great Dane. 

 

Sorry canna for so many questions but while I have you here I want to pick your brain! Is their a way to store a nutrient mix that's left over from a feeding like storing it in the fridge in order to prolong the use?

[Cannabissapean]

I am assuming we're speaking about hydroponics. 

 

It has often been recommended here in the forum NOT to attempt to store any mixed solutions for later feeding of your cannabis plants.  Especially if it has already been used for a feeding cycle.

 

If it was already used for a feeding cycle (1 or 2 or 3 weeks), then the mixture is not entirely depleted of nutrients, but they are in such low concentration, and probably in an out-of-balance ratio, that the plant would have a difficult time to absorb anything worthwhile.  In fact, the imbalanced ratios could result in a condition similar to lock-out.  But the worst thing is that the plant has already thrown-off its waste into the solution, so the solution now contains undesired salts.

 

It is not recommended to pre-mix batches, rather to mix just before each feeding cycle.  As soon as you mix-up a batch, the nutrients are basically activated, and chemical reactions begin to occur, some more slowly than others.  Remember, water and oxygen are basically catalysts or oxydizers for just about everything.  This recommendation to NOT pre-mix is especially important for multi-part nutrients (ie., 1-Grow, 2-Bloom, 3-Micro, etc).  They were reasonably stable when each component was in its individual bottle, but as soon as they become mixed, reactions begin to occur.  Basically, the nutrients in the mixture begin to combine and decay into various salts. 

 

It is also strongly recommended NEVER to mix the nutrients together and THEN mix them into the water.  All manufacturers that I am aware recommend to mix them directly into the reservoir water in a particular order, basically in the order shown in their tables, or in the case of numbered bottles, 1-, 2-, then 3-, etc.  Always start with the full volume of water to be mixed.  If you want to mix a 30-liter batch, then the first component should be the full 30-liters of water, then the nutrients per plan, stirring well after adding each component. 

 

Now, all that being said, I do still save my old used nutrients, but not for cannabis.  I save the old nutrients and dilute them and sprinkle them along with normal watering onto the yard plants or into the vegetable garden.  I have a rainwater collection system, 4 x 500-liter barrels connected in series (~2000 liters).  I pour some of the old solutions into the first barrel.  Over the summer, as rain enters the first barrel, it dilutes the nutrients, and eventually they begin to enter the second, then the third, then the fourth barrels.  I feed my yard plants and trees and tomatos, cucumbers and potatos with this rainbarrel system.  It works great.

 

You can pick my brain anytime...

[BlackMagickGenetics]

On 4.1.2017 at 9:47 PM, Cannabissapean said:

 

I am assuming we're speaking about hydroponics. 

 

It has often been recommended here in the forum NOT to attempt to store any mixed solutions for later feeding of your cannabis plants.  Especially if it has already been used for a feeding cycle.

 

If it was already used for a feeding cycle (1 or 2 or 3 weeks), then the mixture is not entirely depleted of nutrients, but they are in such low concentration, and probably in an out-of-balance ratio, that the plant would have a difficult time to absorb anything worthwhile.  In fact, the imbalanced ratios could result in a condition similar to lock-out.  But the worst thing is that the plant has already thrown-off its waste into the solution, so the solution now contains undesired salts.

 

It is not recommended to pre-mix batches, rather to mix just before each feeding cycle.  As soon as you mix-up a batch, the nutrients are basically activated, and chemical reactions begin to occur, some more slowly than others.  Remember, water and oxygen are basically catalysts or oxydizers for just about everything.  This recommendation to NOT pre-mix is especially important for multi-part nutrients (ie., 1-Grow, 2-Bloom, 3-Micro, etc).  They were reasonably stable when each component was in its individual bottle, but as soon as they become mixed, reactions begin to occur.  Basically, the nutrients in the mixture begin to combine and decay into various salts. 

 

It is also strongly recommended NEVER to mix the nutrients together and THEN mix them into the water.  All manufacturers that I am aware recommend to mix them directly into the reservoir water in a particular order, basically in the order shown in their tables, or in the case of numbered bottles, 1-, 2-, then 3-, etc.  Always start with the full volume of water to be mixed.  If you want to mix a 30-liter batch, then the first component should be the full 30-liters of water, then the nutrients per plan, stirring well after adding each component. 

 

Now, all that being said, I do still save my old used nutrients, but not for cannabis.  I save the old nutrients and dilute them and sprinkle them along with normal watering onto the yard plants or into the vegetable garden.  I have a rainwater collection system, 4 x 500-liter barrels connected in series (~2000 liters).  I pour some of the old solutions into the first barrel.  Over the summer, as rain enters the first barrel, it dilutes the nutrients, and eventually they begin to enter the second, then the third, then the fourth barrels.  I feed my yard plants and trees and tomatos, cucumbers and potatos with this rainbarrel system.  It works great.

 

You can pick my brain anytime...

How should I go about handling pH fluctuations? It seems like within 30 mins of mixing nutrients it fluctuates up.

[Cannabissapean]

A very common problem.  You probably have lots of impurities in your water.

 

Try collecting rainwater and using that, or buy some distilled water for mixing with the nutrients.  If these different sources of water fix the problem, then you know it was the water.  Of course, either of these sources will have a different starting EC than tap water, so you might need to adjust Cal/Mag or add some Micros. 

 

Or you might need to pH adjust your water well in advance and allow it to sit for 3 or 4 days before mixing with the nutes.  What are you using to adjust downwards?  When I used organic products, I noticed my adjustments did not last long.  But then I started using pH-Down from Advanced Hydroponics, much more stable.

 

Also, what nutrients are you feeding?  Bio-Bizz nutrients require more pH adjustment-solution and more often than Advanced Hydro.  And wow, Powderfeeding from Greenhouse is very pH stable.

 

Adding oxygen also raises pH.

 

Are you using rockwool?  Many times Rockwool will force the pH upwards for many days before it finally becomes neutral to the reservoir solution.  If you are using Rockwool, it is usually best to pre-soak the cubes in low pH-adjusted water for about a week before use.

 

Everybody's conditions are different.  Through trial and error, you will eventually find what works.  This is called dialing-in your grow.  Every grow is different.

 

For EC meters, I highly recommend the Truncheon by BlueLabs.  a bit more expensive, but worth it.

 

I hope these thoughts are helpful food for thought.

[Cannabissapean]

On 4.1.2017 at 0:25 AM, BlackMagickGenetics said:

Another question canna. Why is the phenotypes so dominant with Autoflowers? It seems very easy to get a Purple pheno with the right strains without temp drop but it seems hard as hell to get a Purple Photoperiod

Sorry, I failed to see this question earlier.  There are a number of purple phenos available from various seedbanks.

And someone has posted some beautiful pictures of purple phenos somewhere in the gallery or in the blogs.  There is somewhere a beautiful picture of a male plant in FULL bloom, powerfully purple.  Sadly, I forgot exactly where.

 

By the way, I have deleted a few of the above posts where someone had deleted their content and replaced their content with a single period (.).  Such replacements are a disruption to the flow of the thread, confusing to other readers, and they just don't look good.

 

For everyone who reads this, in the future, if you wish to entirely delete a comment that you have posted, please contact one of us Moderators.  We will be happy to assist you.  Alternatively, if you do not wish to bother the Moderator with the task, another method is to edit your comment and replace it with a simple comment that doesn't cause a disturbance of the flow of the theme of the thread.  Even better, be careful to write what you mean and mean what you write.  Thank you.

[BlackMagickGenetics]

On 1/4/2017 at 3:47 PM, Cannabissapean said:

(No, I didn't edit anything.  Because I came into the forum through the back door, many features are running screwey.  Such as the Chats.  I cannot see either of the Chat features.  Hopefully, the forum administrators will re-open the front door again.  I was surprised to see that others had been posting since the announcement.  I have been unable to enter the site since Tuesday morning, and I still cannot through the normal front door..  I was only able to come in through the back door because I had received a notification from you, BlackMagicGenetics, in my old email account.)

 

I am assuming we're speaking about hydroponics. 

 

It has often been recommended here in the forum NOT to attempt to store any mixed solutions for later feeding of your cannabis plants.  Especially if it has already been used for a feeding cycle.

 

If it was already used for a feeding cycle (1 or 2 or 3 weeks), then the mixture is not entirely depleted of nutrients, but they are in such low concentration, and probably in an out-of-balance ratio, that the plant would have a difficult time to absorb anything worthwhile.  In fact, the imbalanced ratios could result in a condition similar to lock-out.  But the worst thing is that the plant has already thrown-off its waste into the solution, so the solution now contains undesired salts.

 

It is not recommended to pre-mix batches, rather to mix just before each feeding cycle.  As soon as you mix-up a batch, the nutrients are basically activated, and chemical reactions begin to occur, some more slowly than others.  Remember, water and oxygen are basically catalysts or oxydizers for just about everything.  This recommendation to NOT pre-mix is especially important for multi-part nutrients (ie., 1-Grow, 2-Bloom, 3-Micro, etc).  They were reasonably stable when each component was in its individual bottle, but as soon as they become mixed, reactions begin to occur.  Basically, the nutrients in the mixture begin to combine and decay into various salts. 

 

It is also strongly recommended NEVER to mix the nutrients together and THEN mix them into the water.  All manufacturers that I am aware recommend to mix them directly into the reservoir water in a particular order, basically in the order shown in their tables, or in the case of numbered bottles, 1-, 2-, then 3-, etc.  Always start with the full volume of water to be mixed.  If you want to mix a 30-liter batch, then the first component should be the full 30-liters of water, then the nutrients per plan, stirring well after adding each component. 

 

Now, all that being said, I do still save my old used nutrients, but not for cannabis.  I save the old nutrients and dilute them and sprinkle them along with normal watering onto the yard plants or into the vegetable garden.  I have a rainwater collection system, 4 x 500-liter barrels connected in series (~2000 liters).  I pour some of the old solutions into the first barrel.  Over the summer, as rain enters the first barrel, it dilutes the nutrients, and eventually they begin to enter the second, then the third, then the fourth barrels.  I feed my yard plants and trees and tomatos, cucumbers and potatos with this rainbarrel system.  It works great.

 

You can pick my brain anytime

[BlackMagickGenetics]

^^^please delete I'm having trouble when quoting and replying can not delete it and only way to get rid of it is to post it

[BlackMagickGenetics]

On 1/5/2017 at 3:30 PM, Cannabissapean said:

A very common problem.  You probably have lots of impurities in your water.

 

Try collecting rainwater and using that, or buy some distilled water for mixing with the nutrients.  If these different sources of water fix the problem, then you know it was the water.  Of course, either of these sources will have a different starting EC than tap water, so you might need to adjust Cal/Mag or add some Micros. 

 

Or you might need to pH adjust your water well in advance and allow it to sit for 3 or 4 days before mixing with the nutes.  What are you using to adjust downwards?  When I used organic products, I noticed my adjustments did not last long.  But then I started using pH-Down from Advanced Hydroponics, much more stable.

 

Also, what nutrients are you feeding?  Bio-Bizz nutrients require more pH adjustment-solution and more often than Advanced Hydro.  And wow, Powderfeeding from Greenhouse is very pH stable.

 

Adding oxygen also raises pH.

 

Are you using rockwool?  Many times Rockwool will force the pH upwards for many days before it finally becomes neutral to the reservoir solution.  If you are using Rockwool, it is usually best to pre-soak the cubes in low pH-adjusted water for about a week before use.

 

Everybody's conditions are different.  Through trial and error, you will eventually find what works.  This is called dialing-in your grow.  Every grow is different.

 

For EC meters, I highly recommend the Truncheon by BlueLabs.  a bit more expensive, but worth it.

 

I hope these thoughts are helpful food for thought.

RX Green Solutions are the nutes with RX Up and Down. I'm using an RO filtration system for my water witch brings the ppm around 25-30. I believe my RO water PH is high like 12 I'm not to sure because it's been awhile since I checked it without adding anything to it. I germinate using a heat mat and Rapid Rooters, when my seed germinates I remove it from the Rapid Rooter and place in a soil-less medium.

[Cannabissapean]

My question to you is, why do you find it necessary to quote so often?  This is not a court-room. LOL

 

Or maybe you have not yet discovered, if all you want to do is reply, just go to the bottom of the thread-page and click on "reply to this topic..."

Via the scroll function, you can still see the other comments, even while writing your new message.

 

If you want to quote only a small portion of what the other said, then yeah, use "Quote", but then you can delete that portion of the quote that is 'too-much'. 

 

Of course, you should not add content that the original author didn't write nor manipulate the quote in any way that would mis-represent the original author.