Fogponics

[h3rbalizer]

After a chat last week with romeu9, superbluehaze and dwfi about various systems as i was looking to change my set up having various things i wanted to consider like power, i have enough plugs as it is and less is better IMO.

I have to confess i love my NFT one being the yeild and another is maintaining it which is so easy and wanted the system to have more plants in a system where plants can be moved from veg to flower in a 2 week cycle.

After thinking for hours we discovered fogging or fogponics if you want to call it that and decided to delve a little further to see the pro's and cons. Having come up against various problems like how to power more than one ultrasonic transducer from one power source was the main problem as transducers are state of the art little bits of kit that you will see more and more of them as technology grows. Transducers can be powered by using Mhz or 12v causing ultrasound in the water that creates a cool fog/mist which i thought can still be used in cultivating whether it may be adding a jungle like humid enviroment at night or adding hummidity when the lights are on.

My thoughts are now on making a clone/seed tray for 12 plant to start them off as they dont have roots straight away fogging the under the lid would be a perfect gentle way of encourging root development before transplant to the bubblers.

You have to use filtered water with these little misters or foggers i found this one http://www.maplin.co.uk/mini-fogger-mist-generator-35215?c=so&u=strat15 and it is the business. i will report with a video of it working, then follow up with a complete set up guide although not rocket science.

Here are some of the findings,

An ultrasonic fogger is a device that uses ultrasonic sound waves to break water into millions of individual water droplets that are then sprayed into the air as a thick fog. Ultrasonic foggers are most often used for Halloween decorations as a replacement to dry ice. The fog produced by an ultrasonic fogger is not created through a boiling process and does not involve heat of any kind. Because of this, the fog is cold and slightly wet but poses no threat to the user.

How Does An Ultrasonic Fogger Work

An ultrasonic fogger is a relatively small device and consists of a plastic shell, built-in AC/DC adapter, and a metallic ultrasonic transducer plate. The fogger itself is placed under one to four inches of water and a built-in sensor detects its presence and activates the ultrasonic transducer plate. The ultrasonic transducer then vibrates rapidly at ultrasonic speeds and causes water molecules to break apart into individual droplets. These droplets are instantly vaporized into the air, resulting in a thick, cold fog.

Current Applications

While ultrasonic foggers are most often used as Halloween decorations, they are also used in a wide variety of other applications. For example, ultrasonic foggers are often used in aeroponics to supply gardens and greenhouses with an artificial humidity as well as deliver nutrients to plant roots in order to speed up the growth process. They and are also used in aquariums and other artificial habitats to simulate the natural mist of the tropical rain forests. Ultrasonic foggers can also be used by the elderly in addition to people with breathing problems such as COPD, bronchitis, and emphysema to create ideal humidity levels.

Advantages and Disadvantages

Ultrasonic foggers are, for the most part, safe, reliable, and effective at vaporizing water. However, ultrasonic foggers vaporize anything that is in the water. This means that any chemicals, viruses, bacteria, or other pathogens that are in the water will be sprayed into the air with the rest of the water and can be breathed in by the user or other people near the device. Because of this, it is important to keep the water tank clean at all times. Ideally, the user should also be using purified water in any ultrasonic fogger system.

Competing Technologies

While ultrasonic foggers are often categorized as an alternative fogger technology, they are currently the most widely used system for vaporizing water and nutrients due to their efficiency and ease of use. However, there are other systems available that do the same thing through other means. Atomizers, for example, are able to draw water through a small hose and spray it out of a nozzle in a fine mist. This mist, however, is not as good as the fog produced by an ultrasonic fogger and has much larger water droplets.

An interview i found from Maximum yeild

BGJ: From your research and development, what do you think the major advantages and disadvantages are for using fog in hydroponic applications?

Jesse James: The biggest advantages I have discovered are the benefits of a three to five micron water particle. The beauty of such a small particle delivery system is that it is actually small enough to be absorbed directly through the pores of a plant. This allows for a lack of water surface tension normally associated with most nutrient delivery technologies. If there is not a coating of condensation on your root mass, your roots’ oxygen uptake capabilities are exponentially increased. Another benefit of the lack of water surface tension was quite a surprise to us and what we call the “pipe cleaner effect.” Instead of being the smooth white branches we are all familiar with, our roots became super fuzzy, covered in the finest micro roots we had ever seen, which in turn increased the root surface area and nutrient uptake capabilities. For us, fogponics has drastically reduced time cycles for propagation by cutting, vegetative state and bloom times.

Fogponics has also become the major factor for lowering our nutrient consumption. On average, we only use between 10 per cent and 20 per cent of the manufacturer's recommended dosage (that is 80 to 90 per cent less nutrient).

I think the major disadvantage of fog is that if the system fails, the plants will also fail - rapidly. Because the roots are drier than with conventional systems, they will dry out faster in the event of a system failure. For this reason, our units are built with a redundant standard aeroponic sprayer back-up system that should be powered on a separate breaker and tied into a root zone humidity sensor.

BGJ: What is next for you and your company as it relates to fog technologies?

Jesse James: In addition to our current propagation system we will be adding a full cycle (cutting-to-harvest) system and a couple of fog mod kits to convert existing systems into fogponics. I am also eagerly anticipating going large scale, setting up some fogponics greenhouse systems.

With less cost, increased absorption and amplified growth rates, the proof is in the fog. With all of the changes that are occurring in the hydroponics industry, these will definitely be two companies to keep your eye on.

This all got me very intrested indeed and i continue to research.

Hey Fuzzy you could even get some fish in there!

[Romeu9]

Top notch research my friend!

Well done!!

Take care

[h3rbalizer]

cheers romeu these are the future not just hydroponics but for......lets say you walk in to your local pub with your phone in your pocket, your phone will start charging via ultrasoinic transducers sending mhz radio frequencey that will transformed into energy and charge your phone if the pub has a transmiter/ transducer, also known as atomisers ultrasonic cleaners, speakers, and garden misters!

[Guest superbluehaze]

an excellent post, my friend.

foggers are now being used here with room fans; to work great I have been told;

all the best,

john

[h3rbalizer]

The more i read about it the more of a headache it became until i thought of the germination/ clone side of things as this would be easier and more effective as plain water would be used and the whole dome/propigator would be full of mist,, just what you need for clones that have no root system. Even with a one disk 90ph output would be enough in a 40lt rez, no mist no nebulizer, easy enough to have one spare and some disks too.

[h3rbalizer]

Here is a little video from the fogponic test in a 10lt bucket, Romeu was asking about one of these for humidity at night and could be perfect for him with a little fan to gently blow the mist around the room.

[Romeu9]

Perfect!

Thanks for it!

They will work wonderful!

Cant wait to see you growing "fogponicaly"!

Take care

[h3rbalizer]

Cheers Romeu and DFWI. K know what you mean about the cheap crap as i had a look berfore purchase and decided to go with maplan product, one of the biggest retailers in the UK.

My idea was for the seeds and clones as i think the mist would be better for encouraging root systems because of the particles....You have me thinking of a side by side test DFWI....stay tuned!

[Guest dfwi]

Where to start lol lol lol lol I often do nutrient & system reviews and tests for a friends hydro shop and have used the fogger system . Yes the foggers work fine end off the day it is just another gadget to displace water. The only problem i found with them was the cheaper e-bay 1's made in China last about 50hrs. So if you are going with them don't skimp $$$ wise on cheap shit.

Think it can be a great set up for clones and veg stage with plants in netted pots.

I honestly belive to produce big healthy plants the root structure should be in a medium. Think it eliminates alot off root problems that are often coursed by the root system being expossed. Weather it is incased and protected buy the container or not, it is still subject to air-bone problems. Where as a root system incased in a medium eliminates a-lot off those problems and gives the plant a firmer base structure.

But hey it's a proven system and like i always say whatever works for you and your happy working with.

[dHetep]

your set up looks good question did the nebulizer come with a float. It's been by experience that when the nut levels gets about two or three inches above the nebulizer the fog is greatly reduce and will eventualy stopbeing produced also I found clones have trouble rooting if the denses part of the fog is more the 3 inches away. al that to say you should have a float to keep the nebulizer at the proper level in the nut also this will give you the ability to raise and lower the fog zone.

[dHetep]

I have had good results using fog in veg. some challenges I faced was getting the fog evenly distributed, making sure the root zone was with in the fog zone. The vapor doesn't expand upward. Nebulizer malfunction if the happens it's a matter of hours before roots start drying. malfunction can be caused by a dirty disk. Life span of the nebulizer can vary I have three each came with extra replacement disks. during the first grow I replaced disks in all three and one malfunctioned. Each nebulizer had one head (vibrating disk) you can get them with up to 12 heads, however you will have to montior the nutrient solution as the head will heat up.

Here is a link to the set up.

http://www.420magazine.com/forums/abandoned-journals/116543-dhetep-fogponic-hydro-grow.html

[h3rbalizer]

Cheers dHetep, i know the float you mean and i will have one for the purposes you describe. Floats i seen only came with the cheap ones from fleabay, i think clay would be the best medium to use so the mist could penetrate better and will be moving the plants to a bucket system once the roots have developed.

[dHetep]

let me know how the clay works out for u.

[h3rbalizer]

Will do mate i cant get a minute to myself at the moment but keep an eye on the post and i will do a step by step for the forum, when people around my house stop finding jobs for me to do!

[Romeu9]

nice quests Fuzzy!

[h3rbalizer]

Het fuzzy the ultrasonic causes vibrations in the water @ MHZ and produces a cold mist, you get them for garden pond foggers. otherwise knowen as an ultrasonic transducer.

[dHetep]

Whats good all, Some Nubulizer challenges, I ve notice that after prolonged use the outer casing of the nebulizer starts to corrode from the nutrient salts the result of the corrosion is deminished fog and eventual shutdown also it raises the PH by 1 to 2 points i.e rcently changed by res started out with a ph of 5.78 after placing the nubulizer in for 3 minutes ph when up to 5.92. I noticed it was getting corroded and wondered if it would effect the Ph. Also the nubulizer produces a cold fog however the unit itself can generate a lot of heat if placed in a small container or if you useing more than one. I was using three single head fogers in a 30 liter res the temp got up to 75 degrees.

This nebulizer has had 1500 hrs of use.

[h3rbalizer]

1200 hours not bad, how many piezo plates did you have to replace during that time? i will be uaing with plain water only so might avoid the corrosion.

[dHetep]

I replaced disks in two units.

[h3rbalizer]

you got a link as an example drunk?

[Elektroski Justovski]

Dont throw away corroded parts they can be fixed easy if you got acces to high pressure blasting machines. Well since the corrosion dont do holes it can be fixed cheap i will say.

[h3rbalizer]

you can't mess around with these elektro you fuck it if you even touch the piezo disk replacment is around a 5 GBP

[Hydroguy]

Great info on fogging, I have been very interested in this for a while now. It seems like a very undeveloped area of hydroponics. Do you have problems with the transducer using up all of the water so fast that after a couple hours it stops producing fog? I have a couple that I use during halloween to make stuff for my kids and I found that to be an issue for me. I also noticed in the video posted that the fog remained low in the bucket unless the grower waved his hand in the bucket. Would and air hose from a pump without an air stone help move the fog around and solve the issue? Also I use cool mist humidifiers in my grow rooms to keep extra heat down.

I know a lot of you may not be in the states but a pharmacy store called Walgreens has a humidifier that would fit into a 3 or 5 gallon bucket that might solve both of these issues. It works by screwing a nozzel onto any water bottle and placing it upside down into the humidifier. The water slowly trickles out as needed so that the transducer has a perfect supply of water. I use a one liter aquafina water bottle and that gives me 12 hours of fog.

Click on the link to view the humidifier

http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/walgreens-compact-personal-ultrasonic-humidifier/ID=prod6040512-product

I hope this is helpful:)

[Big'G']

Go to Ebay and search for an 'Aero Pot' comes complete with fogger grommet lid and dome.