Dutch Passion's thought on LED & how they affect uptake of nutients

[lamsbread 1,369]

The topic of LED lighting has got the team at Dutch Passion thinking. Seymour’s original 350 gram from an Automazar was done with 290 watts of power and yet it looked like the result of 600W or possibly even 1000w. I am sure much of this is to do with the fact that the LED’s produce only the light the plant needs with none of the green and yellow ‘less useful’ wavelengths. So 290W of LED light might need say 600w of HPS to produce. I would like to see more from the LED manufacturers on this as they seem to be on the crest of a wave. The only stumbling block will be the price which will deter most customers, even those that have been convinced by thetechnology.

One other important aspect of LED is the fact that the light comes evenly from a panel of 3 feet x 3 feet. Or 1m x 1m for us Europeans. The effect of that is a more even spread of light rather than a single point source as you have with a traditional HPS Bulb. LED is similar in concept to the ‘travelling light’, or HPS on a rail where the light rolls from one side of the room to the other ensuring that all plants get some direct light at some point. The problem with the travelling light technique is that for a lot of the time the bud is getting low light. The idea of spreading that illumination out,a s the LED panel does, results in all the plants is getting a fair share of light all the time And all the light the plant does get is rich in the most useful wavelengths. It is a dream scenario for the plant and perhaps that alters the plants feed requirements. It seems to increase the requirement for calcium and magnesium and I am sure that is key to understanding what it is that LED does differently.

Here is an initial theory on why magnesium deficiencies are seen. Magnesium is used in several ways, it is also needed as part of the chlorophyll molecule itself. Could it be that LED grown plants use extra Magnesium to produce extra chlorophyll to deal with the increased levels of useful light? I don’t know, but it is a fair question to ask.

Calcium is used in different ways by the plants but one way is in cell walls and membranes. It is used in enzymes and transporting of other nutrients. Somehow more of this is going on.

So my thoughts are along several different lines right now.

LED is now more effective ‘watt for watt’ than HPS. The poor public image of LED is down to some early exaggerated claims that never survived public scrutiny. But LED technology has really moved on in the last year or so.

I think the LED market will really takeoff when there is a bit more serious competition. HydrogrowLED look like they could give HPS a serious run for it’s money in coming years but prices will have to drop. I can’t believe that the LED manufacture can be so expensive, a few cents each but surely not too much when LED’s are being produced by the million in the Far East. And assembly of the components is something the Chinese can do with their eyes shut for a fraction of the price we can achieve in the west. So $1,000 or more for a 300 watt LED device seems excessive. Get the price down to $300-$400 and hardened HPS devotees will buy them. In my opinion LED prices are going to have to soften in order to get mass market appeal. At current prices I think 90% of customers will never be able to justify it even though they might love to have one.

But technically they are really moving LEDalong. It makes me wonder where LED light performance might be in a few years time. For those that worry about heat signatures and energy consumption then LED has obvious attractions. The light is all fully usable by the plant and it is delivered from an evenly lit panel rather than a single point. So all the plant surface area can join in the photosynthetic fun.

I have one other point to make about LED. By my reckoning some 40% of available surface area on the panel is not used. I am sure there is a reason for this such as limits in soldering density, or something even sillier reason such as the current factory only make circular units. But I am sure that these problems could be overcome. LED panels could be made brighter by filling some of the ‘dead space’ on the panel with more LED’s. And like I said, I really can’t believe the LED’s themselves can cost that much. We have seen LED’s move from 1 watt to 3 watts in the last couple of years. What happens when they find a way to mass produce a 5W or even a 7W version? And prices will drop like they do for everything else that is mass-producible. I remember being mesmerised by the first electronic calculator I saw, ‘could I ever afford one of my own?’ I wondered. And barely a decade later you were getting them for free when you filled up your car with gas.

I think we need to ask the nutrient manufacturers how they need to reformulate their products to allow for the new feeding requirements of the plants and I will check around the Dutch Passion office to see if we have any contacts and let you know. I am sure I can initiate some cooperation from my mineralised brothers in the nutrient world. I will see if I can get them to register onsite and give us their views.

I think LED will really take off. Right now it is still in the stage of the ‘early adopter’ . It will become a mainstream technology but manufacturers will first face up to a transition from ‘premium market’ to ‘mass market’ and change profit expectations for it to happen.

And Seymour, we would truly love to see you scrog a couple of AutoMazars, let me know if you are serious about that,perhaps after this grow. If you are serious,we will get you some seeds and run a ‘guess the yield’ contest. But I would go for both LED panels (or evenbetter 2x penetrator pro’s !) rather than one. Make it spectacular !

The plant continues to look excellent Seymour, how much is she drinking each day ? I wondered whether there was a hint of nutrient burn at the tips of the leaves on one shot? As you say, she might need another week before the PK14 boost. I am amazed she is at an EC of 1.6 when the Mazar would only take an EC of 1.0 under the same conditions.

You are doing great mate

This post was originally posted by "Dutchpassiontony" on the Autoflower network

Interesting stuff , what does the future hold? Will we see LED targeted plant foods & who will be the first to formulate them.

The seymore reffered to in the start of this post is a guy called "Seymore-buds" he grew 350g with 290W of led, thats over a gram per Watt. Comparable to what you can expect with an hps! He was growing "Auto Mzaar" from Dutch Passion.

Auto's are now starting to achieve more acceptable weights and highs and LED getting better all the time, producing som fine crops. All we need now is for LED to drop in price,I'm guessing in the next few year we will see that happen.

Much love Lamsbread

[Dust 6,284]

Nice article man, indeed like you say i think LED and autos have a destiny to accomplish

you can see some few growers like Mr.X that already have some nice results with LED, but that's far away for beeing common yet, LED has still a long way to go i think, and growers too to adapt to it

Thanks for sharing

[Flail 222]

nice find!

[strainhunters admin 47]

Nice post! Interesting article and this is probably the future for indoor growS

[Potent 462]

Yeah i agree wicked post and most certainly a hint of the future

[bozoph 696]

ive been very interesed in leds for years. but now i think they r ready. 7+ band leds r now producing proper light for plants. the prices r dropping and soon ill buy 1 for an expirament.

[Flail 222]

I'm with bozo price needs to come down and then we will see the game change

[Glocalgrower 3]

I've been convinced about the technology since a while back but just as the guy said in the article, only the price holds me back. Even if you'd cut down your electricity bill in the end the price you paid for the gear adds up to a regular bill! Pretty much + - 0 in the end, except for the yield perhaps...

[Romeu9 491]

Realy good, Lams!! Thanks!

I can imagine grow rooms with walls of leds and plasma digital bulbs as main lights!
Gotta Love The Future!!!

Take care

[lamsbread 1,369]

Found a video for ya Rome - It's a plasma lamp with led

[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6rTLKdm3ho&feature=related]

Plasma looks very interesting. I'm off to do a bit of research, wanna find out more about them.

I also will try to find out more about induction lights & Ceramic Metal Halides (Retro White).

All this new tech, just gotta love it.

Peace Lams

[Dust 6,284]

nice lighting, but that most at least 2 arms and 1 legg!!

[lamsbread 1,369]

No kiddind there Dust. Just looked at prices 300W Plasma £1000 (choke)

Induction light 300W £460 (but they do last for 100 000 hours)

I need to do some in depth research into all the new Light available and make a list the pro's and cons, I may be some time.

I will be sure to share my findings.

I will say one thing all these light will become cheaper in next few years and maybe there will be a battle to see which type of light will take the number one place (Price war looming maybe, oh i do hope so ).

What next? Even if these Lights (LED,Induction,Ceramic Metal Halide & Plasma) become cheaper more efficient, what will come to market next? Spectrum tuned scanning lazers? Hehe you never know and you might have read it here first!

Peace to the highest Lams

[Dust 6,284]

haha laser lamp would be nice we could live doors open when you party it will make disco light ^^

Yeah still too expensive for me ^^ And even when it will be cheaper, i don't think it will beat HPS and MH in n°1 favorite lighting type. just a thought tho, i ain't no nostradamus

But I will personally definitly give it a try when i will be able to pay for that ^^

[Romeu9 491]

Here you go, Lams. http://www.strainhunters.com/portal/forum/sunpulse-bulbs-and-lumatek-ballasts

This forum is a wonderful place!

Take care

[MisterHaze 28]

great topic buddy was an intresting read. Thanks!

[Guest delicious]

I tell you what is better than LED ; Stolen CFL. Well if siriusly ... Its just so expensive i mean for 1000 £ i can get 20x250w hps here and their balasts it gives me 5000 w pure sun ....

[Flail 222]

My local Store jsut started offering 45 watt panels for $150

the price reality is going down FAST!

i'm getting sick of HPS veg streching... PLain MH is too hot...

LED is the next relistic choice.. And soon becoming a real choice...

[Guest Markus]

Well said MapleLeaf_Flail ... the MH is really too hot for the veg time.

[Dust 6,284]

Why too hot? never had any problem with my MH ^^

actually it's been a long time i didn't run a HPS lol, always forget to put it, in the last weeks of flo ^^

[Guest delicious]

Hell yeah if led goes down ... I am in but ... Dud wtf 45 w 150 $ - its like a 225 w for 750 $ ...oh hell no ... This is not the meaning of geting cheap ... This. Just means ...get less fucked lol

[Guest Elias]

Shit looks good but way to expensive for me yet, can't wait for spring so i can use the sun light again, it's free and supposedly gives exta taste by develloping a wider terpenes profile (is it?).

Anyway cheers for the article always good to learn!

Peace out

[Dust 6,284]

It is supposed too ^^

Have a Good outdoor grow Elias

[Flail 222]

45 watts, $150 purchase price, 3.5 feet x 3.5 feet coverage ( proven in person)

that much coverage, out of a small lower power panel?

they are doing something right...

company is claiming similar results to a 400W

and thats about how much BUDGET kits cost reflector lamp and ballist

[Flail 222]

@ dust

when you are trying to fit a bulb in a space too small for it the heat radiates ALOT

and for smaller areas this becomes a problems with less lumens then HPS

[Guest delicious]

I am not saying its bad ... I am saying its expensive ... You can have a great big grow room with 750 $