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Defoliation - A New Supercropping Technique

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Defoliation - A New Supercropping technique

I originally found this technique in a pdf on a torrent site.

The method involves plucking fan leave, thus simulating new growth and letting the light in to that new growth.

By doing this more bud sites are created.

This is first done when the plant is 6"/15cm tall.

The process is reapeated throught the veg and bloom stage.

Many people will have read that fan leaves should never be removed and will tell you this is so.

Times move and things change and new techniques are developed, many growers will tell you that thier method works for them so why change it .

I won't try and change anyone or the way they grow but if you like trying new things then this might be for you.

I love finding out about new lighting tecnologies and growing methods etc so when i saw this i got quite excited.

I am also happy to experiment,In some cases experimentation might not work but so far i have not had any bad luck like that.

I have a grow going using this technique and have taken pictures. I will try to post it soon but work has been hectic (i'm self employed).

Anyway i'm in it for the duration of my grow, which has been fimmed and defoliated several times so far.

Believe/don't believe choice is yours but I will be pleased to have all follow this grow.

I leave you with some links from ICMAG

First is a grow from "K33ftr33z" follow the entire grow you'll be amazed.

Second link is to the defoliation PDF which is a condensed version of the thread, this hilights the main techniques of this growing method.

Third link is from "vprising 909" who has also tried this technique.

Defoliation - hi yield technique - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163

Download the "hi yield technique" PDF here - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=3885667&postcount=1381

Defoliation - the field test - by "vprising" - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=176351&highlight=k33f

I hope you find these interesting.To get the best understanding read it fully, skimming will only give you half the story.

Peace hunters

Lams

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It works, Ive done it with my Cannatonic.. she realy need it.

I just think its not fair for the plants sometimes...

The yeld was very good! Nothing against it ;)

Thanks for sharing

Take care

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It seems like a real interesting thing but i'm running out of time for such experiment, maybe for my next session with clones!

Peace!

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yeah interesting technique, i have never tried this on a 15cm tall tho, but usually i like to take away quite a lot of leaves ^^ well everywhere where it's needed, but here they pushed the thing clearly further.

Thanks for the share lams ;)

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I've taken away some leaves but the older "kinda dried out" leaves. But stripping a plant out of all her leaves that seems like an hardcore experience to try, i guess form a logic point of view i would have say to wait after the stretch to do so as th ebud might use the tiniest leaves to grow while the biggest leaves generate more power towards the growth.

That theory might be horse shit though lol

Peace!

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Anyone follow the link yet?

if not here is a picture of the results of the technique.post-8436-0-03691600-1331927819.jpg

Peace

Lams

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yes i've looked the first 20 pages i think some nice buds for sure, but feel painfull for the little baby when they are young and all naked, we could feel like a pedophil almost :s

But for sure it seems to work nicely, i'll try on one of my plant maybe

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Great read

haven't done a side by side experiment as yet(next month will be starting) but cutting away the fan leaves helps me maintain airflow as i train my plants...i honestly thought my yield would of suffered from doing this but secondary branchs started growing with more vigor and created more bud sites...but this can also be due to the training.

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You can follow my grow here, just follow the link

Twilight - Dutch Passion - Defoliation

Peace

Lams

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ive used this techneque many a times. not on cannabis though. it is a standerd practice for bonsaiing trees. i used it on a from seed bosc pear tree i grew.

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it has been tested all around the globe, look and you shall find.   there is huge amount of evidence you are getting much slower growth, spend more time and get smaller buds in the end with defoliation

 

i have yet to find any side by side grow that  did not show slow retarded plants,   that defoliating field study link is also not showing anything only slow vegging plants in dwc, it doesnt even have the flowering period or side by side control plants

 

its not some hypothesis its bases on thousands of years of experience and scientific research,   the laws of thermodynamics

 

leaf collects light the light energy that allows the plant to make lots of buds    you take leafs away you take bud building energy away  its the laws of physics and thermodynamics not magic

 

leaf cannot block light from plant its there to to take the light for use doh,  i understand that big monster plant might need some trimming on the center parts to get airflow in but never canopy leaf to expose budsite... that is ridiculous faith/religious based thinking and does not make any kind of sense

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In my limited experience I've have had great success with pruning off leaves I felt were either shading nodes that would be more productive with direct light than the leaf could offer, lower under-performing leafs,  or leafs which were victim of a nutrient imbalance. I've personally felt anything other than an optimum leafs would cause the plant to use more energy in an attempt to heal the damage than to simply divert that energy to more effective production. This is of course only after your deficiency is addressed.

I hope this is found helpful!

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I did a heavy defoliation on my last OG mid Veg, but I did a 7 week veg. It worked very well. I noticed a few days after, explosive branching and shoot growth, and new big fan leaves came back pretty quick. Now I have a 3 week old exodus that I plucked a few fan leaves off and Im stressing out. She still looks healthy but I hope I didnt totally stunt her. My thinking being small space was I would be able to level out the canopy quicker and limit the stretch. But Im not sure. Ill post the results, if I dont have a nervous breakdown that is lol.

 

The thing that confuses me about the Defoliation argument is everyone will top if inclined, no worries. That's cutting the head of your plant. Those same people will tell you cutting a few fan leaves is the end of the world, and dangerous, lol. 

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The key is not to blindly follow an advice, book or idea but also switch brains on, before, while and afterwards.

 

I would not do that to a young plant but maybe towards the "end", thats when I take out more than the casual bud shading fan leaves. 

 

Before that I only trim for airflow, depending on strain and size etc.....  

 

 

It's seldom black or white only guys :)

 

Fim

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After thinking about this thread, I decided to edit it and propose a simple experiment that anyone that wants to test the technique can do. If the theory is correct, what you are saying is that the flowers don't need the fan leaves to grow because the light delivered directly to them, will make them grow, so here is my experiment to prove what I think is the correct answer and I am pretty sure once anyone does it, they will convinced themselves what they think is correct.

 

You can start out in two ways, by either taking an existing plant you have and sort of dividing it in half or starting from a new single stemmed clone, pinch the top so there will only be two and performed the following. At around three weeks into flowering the plants should be showing some nice sized flowers. Now take the plant you either divided or pinched the top to grow into two halves and on one side cut all of the fan leaves off leaving nothing but the flowers and leave the other side alone. I'm so certain of what the results will be that I want to even put things in your favor, so wherever the plant is in the room, I want you to position it so the side you cut the fan leaves off of, is always pointed to and getting more light than the side that you left all the fan leaves on.

 

If you do this experiment, you will know what technique works better. If you do it PLEASE post pics of the plant and it's progress here so everyone can see. I would do it but unfortunately I do not have the capability to at this time because I am preparing for the outdoor season. If you want to read and hear my thoughts on the subject, you can continue to read but IMO if you do the above, you won't need to talk about it anymore unless you want to get into the same discussion with differing opinions that has been going on since people have been growing indoors.

 

The only way to prove which way works better is to do a controlled test like this otherwise it's like asking everyone what the best strain is, you'll get many different answers from many different people. Do a test(preferably many tests) post the results and let people decide for themselves from the results.

 

 

ORIGINAL POST

I've tried just about every technique you can think of an here is my input on the subject. Not saying I'm correct and anyone else is wrong, just stating my opinion based on my experience.

 

The largest surface area on any part of the plant, is on the large fan leaves, therefore the more light they receive, the more the plant will grow. Here is where things can become different when it comes to the difference between indoor and outdoor lighting. In most indoor set up, the light is set up in a stationary position and by its very nature, the amount of lumens decreases with the distance from the light. This is the reason techniques such as SOG & SCROG are the most efficient and when used, the removal of any leaves isn't necessary. If you are using a stationary light and not using one of those methods, the removal of fan leaves may appear to be producing more buds and indeed it is by allowing more light to the lower parts of the plants where those buds are developing but you are sacrificing the higher intensity light at the top and for the top of the plants for the development of buds at lower levels with lower intensity light. What would make you think that you will get more from the lower buds with less light than the ones closer to the light?

 

The newer growers may say newer times better techniques but I have yet to hear the logic behind why removing the leaves with more surface area will create larger flowers using the remaining leaves with much less surface area, except that it allows more light to everything below and I explained how the light decreases with distance so again how can that work?

 

I have never removed any leaves from any plant because I have never seen the logic in it but again, I am not saying I'm right and anyone else it wrong. I do know that the reason a SOG/SCROG setup is more efficient and will outproduce any technique where the plant is grown untrained laterally, without moving and/or adding supplemental side lighting, is because of the lumen loss with distance. I can confirm that I have grown both ways with SOG/SCROG being the best yielding and if you have ever grown a plant taller than a few feet tall under a single stationary light setup, you've noticed that the growth canopy on the top of the plant is never larger than a few feet regardless of the actual plant height and that's because of the same loss of light problem.

Edited by PHDin420

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If done through out the life of the plant I believe it has some benefits as air circulation within the canopy is beneficial. Pruning of branches that will produce pop corn nuggets help the main branches to facilitate the maturation of real buds. Fan leaves are solar panels basically. Depending on the training techniques that a grower decides to use determines a lot when harvest time rolls around. Pending on genetics and characteristics of the pheno , is what ultimately determines how far the plant will go and how it will be trained. Some techniques like defoliation hurt some plants. Savita's rely on a healthy fan leaf spread, a grower would be short changing his or her end harvest if the energy panels are removed.  The technique out lined in the article works for Indica dominant hybrid's and  Indy landraces.. Here is some Purple Skunk x Maui Wowie (Maui Haze f1)

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I'm sure I've read somewhere that it can make the plant mutate and possibly turn into a polyploid,extra chromosome or some shizzle!!

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Pending on the severity as to how much material is removed will indeed shock the plant into doing the things listed above. I've had champion genetics go into herm because of overzealous pruning and defoliating. Next to light leaks and sudden changes in atmosphere it is seemingly one of those things where growers think more is better. I guess the difference between fucking up and great success sometimes is luck. I've stunted the bud production and hindered the development process of adding bulk to the buds because of the shock. I defoliated about 5th week in the plan to stop all energy and nutrients to the lower popcorn and direct the energy to the colas. So a little would have been fine. It takes practice and time to understand and react instinctively to our plants.  

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Long time since the creation of this thread :)

I do not share this technique, experience has shown me that it is better to leave all the leaves. I try to look away, the light that clog some bud, but never short.

Obviously, each with their customs and methods, there are no written laws to cultivate :)

Regards!

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Been doing this 20 years or more... A quote from Tsun Tzu sums it up, " Weakness, gives birth to strength". I peel leaves till about the 4-5th week of Bud. Lets light and , as stated, spurs new growth...

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I know it's a contentious topic, that of defoliation

In my humble opinion, the wholesale removal of leaves and essentially stripping the plant bare runs contrary to the laws of botany and nature

However, that said, I think indoors you have to be sensible and issues like air circulation with larger plants, big colas and tight spaces are a serious concern. So a little lolly popping and removal of a few of the largest fans that are really clogging up the works is fine I think. Essentially cleaning up things for better optimization if you like. But yeah full on defoliation as a high yield technique? I don't know...

And yeah I have tried it once or twice and I just don't agree personally, but hey, if it's working for you then more power to you dude 

Pat

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Strain Hunters is a series of documentaries aimed at informing the general public about the quest for the preservation of the cannabis plant in the form of particularly vulnerable landraces originating in the poorest areas of the planet.

Cannabis, one of the most ancient plants known to man, used in every civilisation all over the world for medicinal and recreational purposes, is facing a very real threat of extinction. One day these plants could be helpful in developing better medications for the sick and the suffering. We feel it is our duty to preserve as many cannabis landraces in our genetic database, and by breeding them into other well-studied medicinal strains for the sole purpose of scientific research.

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