12/12 from seed: What sort of yield can you expect?

[jankahar]

I really appreciate your stunning expertise. Could you please post your pics now, showing your fabulous cannabis knowledge in action?

And since you teach us, that every plant needs to be treated in a different way with nutrients, how do you handle it? Do you have a computer feeding each plant with her own very special formula? You really open up a realm of esoteric cannabis knowledge. Thank you!

yes, no need to be sarcastic or rude im trying to be civil here, lets keep it informative and scientific without any hippie hearsay, now i have provided evidence with clear symptomts and i havent received any evidence contrary to that so i will keep that theory untill i get evidence that tells me otherwise,

actually no i dont use computer to feed, but i do predict the changes in plant when it moves from one stage of life to another in flowering and adjust the nutes accordigly, but sometimes there is a plant that doesnt like heavy feedings or the usual receipe or likes to have some element more than the next plant but another element less. its allways a balancing act, never perfect, like most things in life

i look at the plant and feel the leaves when i see something is going wrong i analyse what it might be and check the books to be sure and fix it

you can feed them all the same all the time you just cant expect to allways get great results or maximize the yeild and get problem free garden in that way when the plants are not clones,

im afraid i dont have any pics of my last years garden that had couple 12/12 reg's and autos thrown in to fill up space but i have something from this year if you want to see my results

im gonna do 12/12's this year to fill out the extra space

[firefighter]

im afraid i dont have any pics of my last years garden that had couple 12/12 reg's and autos thrown in to fill up space but i have something from this year if you want to see my results

im gonna do 12/12's this year to fill out the extra space

Yes. If you will ever try 12/12 you will realize the difference to a "normal" grow/ clones.

And your Nitrogen issue: if there is a nitrogen overdose the whole plant will be dark green and the lower leaves will not be light green or yellow.

[jankahar]

Yes. If you will ever try 12/12 you will realize the difference to a "normal" grow/ clones.

And your Nitrogen issue: if there is a nitrogen overdose the whole plant will be dark green and the lower leaves will not be light green or yellow.

i just told you i have grown 12/12 with great success, and the problem we are talking about is in not restricted to 12/12 grown plants in any way. the older leaves can start yellowing even with nitrogen overdose.

again this is not my information so dont quote me like it is my personal knowledge, it isnt, i have gathered it from books and internet. and if you have evidence that this is incorrect please feel free to provide us with the correct information and to the guides on internet and jorge and rosenthal so they can update there books

• Dark green leaves and foliage
  
• Leaf tips turn down, without signs of overwatering.
  
• You may notice yellowing on the affected leaves or other signs of nutrient deficiencies as time goes on
  
• Nitrogen toxicity is often but not always accompanied by nutrient burn
  
• The Claw often seems random, affecting leaves here and there
  
• Heat and pH problems will make the clawing worse, as they stress out the plant and lower her defenses
  
• As time goes on, the claw leaves will eventually start turning yellow, getting spots, and dying
  

''Many growers mistakenly keep raising nutrient levels or adding additional nitrogen when they see yellow leaves in the flowering stage, not realizing that it's natural for plant leaves to start yellowing as harvest approaches. Adding too much nitrogen in the flowering stage can cause nitrogen toxicity even when you can see yellow lower leaves''

from mandala seeds:

Symptoms:

The symptoms are quite diverse and many are often mistaken as a nutrient deficiency! This is due to a lack of gardening experience on the part of the grower, and also due to misguided information in some internet sites where uneducated tips abound.

In many cases over-fertilization is particularly caused by an excess of nitrogen. During the growth and pre-floral phase nitrogen toxicity is quite common. Growers tend to water with a complete fertilizer recommended for this phase and these products all contain a medium to high levels of nitrogen. Nitrogen toxicity begins to show through excessive stem elongation and soft tissue. The plants may appear healthy with lush growth until the negative effects start to set in. In flowering plants it can slow down flowering or even bring it to a standstill. Flowering plants may rejuvenate. Most develop leafy buds and an unusually high amount of secondary shoots (depends on cannabis variety) if nitrogen levels are too high during the pre-flowering. The more advanced stages of excess nitrogen are accompanied by necrosis on many leaves. First the leaf tips burn and dry up. Rusty brown spots appear between the veins and eventually the entire leaf turns brown and falls off.

• Bud development is halted and pistils die off suddenly as if they were pollinated.
  
• Leaf edges curl up (similar to when plants have a "heat stroke") due to a disruption in their transpiration which cools down the leaf surface. This symptom is especially pronounced in the upper part of the plant close to the light source.
  
• Leaves discolor and quickly drop off. Some may yellow and wilt beforehand.
  
• Diverse symptoms appear all at once signaling a multi-nutrient blockage - mainly due to excess salts from macro nutrients (nitrogen, phosphate and potassium).
  
• Poor root development and stunted growth.
  
• Plants become susceptible to mold due to a weakened immune system and bloated cell tissue that retains more water (especially with excess of nitrogen). High EC levels are one of the most common causes for Botrytis or grey mold.
  
• Wilting of seedlings, freshly rooted clones, or young plants. Symptoms resemble lack of watering.
  
• High male ratio or appearance of male flowers on female plants.
  
• Bud mold (Botrytis) on flowering plants.
  

i have not found anything regards 12/12 making plants look that but please provide us

[firefighter]

i just told you i have grown 12/12 with great success, and the problem we are talking about is in not restricted to 12/12 grown plants in any way. the older leaves can start yellowing even with nitrogen overdose.

Yes, what a loss for us all that you can not provide a pic of 12/12. BTW: the "Trainwreck" pic is invalid now...

And to tell you the last time: N was fed normal to below normal and btw I trust the man who made this strain and said it is a hormone issue. I add: a genetic dispostion plus some hormones.

[jankahar]

Yes, what a loss for us all that you can not provide a pic of 12/12. BTW: the "Trainwreck" pic is invalid now...

And to tell you the last time: N was fed normal to below normal and btw I trust the man who made this strain and said it is a hormone issue. I add: a genetic dispostion plus some hormones.

yes i know what you mean about genetic disposition and hormones regarding 12/12 and that doesnt make dark green clawed leaves or can you prove it does? please show me. some plants (sativas,sativa hybrids) continue vegetative growth while budding at the same time to prederminated height and concentrate on flowering after it reaches the height this happens in nature and indoors, indicas react very differently to 12/12. again clawed leaves has nothing to do with it

but the very dark green leaves and clawing leaves and whispy buds with that type of leaves also leads to the conclusion that it has nitrogen overdose and that particular plant didnt like the same dose your other plants got and that has nothing to do with hormones or genes related to 12/12 issues

yes i added couple pictures and removed some from the recent grow album that i will update in correct order at some point.

[Dust]

ok ok i think now you have pretty much discussed all the things you wanted too haha so time to smoke a joint ^^

Jankahar! Thank you for beeing so preventiv and willing to inform on the N toxicity! really nice from you and i hope you will keep helping people Now if you see firefighter don't seem to believe it is not worth it, just let it flow man you proved your point and tried to help and i thank you and hope next time you'll think something is wrong you'll say it but don't insist if you see no reaction

Firefighter, your Santa maria and your double fun could take a flush and would like it, more the Santamaria than the other one if you ask me. but anyway!

ONLY way to know if there is a toxicity problem is to test your runoff water, so there is no need in arguing both of you in the "wind" Jankahar what you need to advise when you think it could be toxicity is make a control, not ask the member to believe you on word and stop feeding ;)

So Firefighter next time you water make sure to measre your values before and after watering and check if values have raised a lot And that way we will know if there is toxicity or not... better than sending another 10 messages no? :P

[jankahar]

i am sorry that i got a little frustrated, i intend to keep everything i say as scientific and open as possible while at the same time try to give it in layman's terms so everybody understands and its not allways easy thing to do

i sincerely hope that all the help and information given in this site wont become a unedited reflection on other growsites in internet, filled with myths, legends and hearsay regarding horticulture and botany, poking nails in stem, boiling roots....

[firefighter]

ok ok i think now you have pretty much discussed all the things you wanted too haha so time to smoke a joint ^^

Firefighter, your Santa maria and your double fun could take a flush and would like it, more the Santamaria than the other one if you ask me. but anyway!

Right, the Santa maria in the single pic is at her end short time before harvest and gained enormous weight, SM are doing extremely well under 12/12. She has been flushed for a week now...But santa had all difficulties at the beginning with root formation. All plants are flushed at least 10 days before harvest many times! After the pic with the two nice plants was shot nutrients were changed to MR2 plus some Shooting Powder and less nitrogen. Both plants gained enormous weight and crytals. I agree, at the time the pic was shot both plants were absolutely top fed but went on gaining weight.

Double Fun is a 75% Indica and although the creator insists she is very good for 12/12 i doubt that a bit....some of them are freaking out as you see, the grow with DF was not unique, many different "phenotypes" but others are quite fine but the top notch for 12/12 AFAIK is Santa maria. I will plant DF outside and stay with my fine sativas indoors.....and most probably clones again.

And that is what we are here for: discuss the circumstances of tricky 12/12. And it was the trickkiest grow EVER in 20 years!

So, if anybody knows good strains for 12/12, please tell me! What about the GH seeds and 12/12, Dust, any results yet?

[firefighter]

Firefighter, your Santa maria and your double fun could take a flush and would like it, more the Santamaria than the other one if you ask me. but anyway!

ONLY way to know if there is a toxicity problem is to test your runoff water, so there is no need in arguing both of you in the "wind" Jankahar what you need to advise when you think it could be toxicity is make a control, not ask the member to believe you on word and stop feeding

Well here is the pic again of DF left and SM right a while later and I just see a good development in buds. I f anybody sees a nitrogen poisoning there I just can not follow. So please be sorry for my complete ignorance, but I enjoy these plants, although DF is not doing aswell as Santa maria.

But to answer the question from the beginning: "what yield can be epected": one Santa Maria plant from NoMercy Supplies had more than 100g fresh and 25 g dry.