whats better LED or HPS

[gicker]

There is a lot of info on the net for people withe bipolar and the benefits of cannerbis.

One of my daughters is bipolar and I and her have look in to the use of cannerbis for people withe this condition.

And I must say its Ben a god sent for us all it's hard looking after her at times.

As for LEDs,I am all in withe them all day long love them .

Regards

[Chimichanga]

CBD is the key to the anxilotic part of the illness, and thc controls the hyperactivity,

the more active the patient more more thc is neede to calm ,

http://www.420magazine.com/2013/03/marijuana-and-bipolar-disorder/

it is used in the states mate for this alone, ya obviously dont know much about the endo canabinoid system and the recoeptors in the mind neuro pathways transmitters or effects or various trichomes on the human body, effects of thc cbd cbg cbn ds on human tissue and chemical reactions electro currents etc this is my erra,

most illnesses come from a defficiency in the endo which are aided with canabis. every strain has different levels and is for different reasons , peopel who take cannabis with no illness are abusing medication, although not harmful, ... woudl one take a cancer patients tablets cause they made you feel better ? every single strain is marked for a different illness every level of terpine will react differently on the mind, giving you a high, the reason you recieve that high is cause you are overdosing that chemical in your mind, and getting a side effect (we enjoy) but for a person deficient in that chemical ...say fybromyalgia woulndt recieve a high but return to a normal state,

its nto as simple as sayign that one tho as there is say 5 that hold that chemical, but have different levels in othert terpines the patient didnt need so then you fidn ones lower insuch,

eg the otto#1 was made a low THC high CBD so that patience requiring CBDs coudl take this but didnt require the THC, for instance a girl with siesures 9 times aday she was 2 years old, the THC would have monged her out so this strain which gave the CBD stoped the siesures and instead of being in a coma and brain damaged now she has full lease of life...

this is just 1 strain recently developed for levels of a certain terpine, if legalised and reserarched EVERY terpine can be singled out and made medicinal.

but until then ive got the otpion of beign on pills. zombied and not remebering what i have doen in the day problems peeing and alot more side effects

or i can choose certain strains which help me deal with my condition with no side effects, i went from being a suisidal person who was aggressive and didnt know what i had done in the morning,i didnt dare leave the house i was isolated and freaked out, i had been rushed into hospital with heart block as my heart stoped a reaction i was having at night to the levels of pills i had to take, i literatly stoped breathing and go cold quite often at night

or on cannabis interact with my children, to being able to work play run speak to people,

"Consistent with the hypothesis that marijuana can be an effective treatment for depression and other mood disorders, there appears to be a sharp decrease in the suicide rate of 15- through 19-year olds males in the treatment states as compared to the control states approximately two years after legalization...

Our results suggest that the legalization of medical marijuana is associated with a 5 percent decrease in the total suicide rate, an 11 percent decrease in the suicide rate of 20- through 29-year-old males, and a 9 percent decrease in the suicide rate of 30- through 39 year-old-males. Estimates for female suicide rates are generally measured with less precision and are sensitive to functional form...

i could go reallty technical on this if your interested? i do alot of research into this big time, science is my key subject , if you wenat to know about real medical ,

look up rick simpson run from the cure at precent i am helping a cancer patient and a lady who suffers from fybromyalgia, which is a deficiency in mg caused by a blockage in the pineal gland which most her symtoms have been relieved by cannabis to which that she can move aroudn without being in her wheelchair or mobility scooter, in total pain .she takes it in food, as it is absorbed via the intestines and then passes through the liver, which processes the THC into a byproduct called 11-hydroxy-THC, which then travels to the bloodstream and then on to our brains. 11-hydroxy THC is thought to be four to five times more potent than regular THC. This is one reason why edibles are known to be more potent when compared to inhaled cannabis. Edibles are also thought to be strong sedatives and many patients use them for treatment of insomnia.

[gicker]

Well Sead,nice reply 10/10 .

[Chimichanga]

cheers bud love to see soem of your work

[firefighter]

I know one big growshop I trust for many years and they answered this question philosophically:

If LEDs were any good for efficient plant productions all the big commercial greenhouses in Holland were run with LED's after a while, because the Dutch are very efficient people. They only use what is cost effectice - no mumbo jumbo chichi gear.

When I drive thru Holland at night I see HPS burning, no LED's.

[gicker]

And that is there option on LED,s and that's ok to.

http://www.prosourceworldwide.com .god love them,from the good old USA.

Well if we all lessened to every thing the so called experts Sead where would we be to day .

Good luck to you.

Regards

[Chimichanga]

lol and my grow shop said the same thing too ''holland dont use them''

can u tell me why on side by side grows a 300watt pulled 256grams and a 1000watt hps only 4 grams more?? now hows that for cost effectivnies,

have ya thaught that maybe hollands growers have like 200 hps in 1 go they have dialed EVERYTHING in spent thousands fans ac units the lot,

if they change to LED thats then goign to be £200 per pannel needing 200 to replace there current numbers..... and then all their thousands of pound fans and shit aint needed any more

then winter there gona need to warm up a lil, but all there money went on the hps and swap to led..

to them it works atm, it works good there gettin rich, why should they change it? but i can tell ya at them numbers

they need around 40 grands for leds to get 200 in there, then they can ditch the 200 grand fans... and have to practise new lights, to get it perfect,

there gona pull around the same, bud, there using 200 600watts.... so thats 120,000 watts the led though is only using 30,000 watts to pull the same,

now on average each 600watt costs the uk £7 per week on a 18/6 so they pay £1400 a week, where as the let only pays £466 a week....

but wait.... im getting the same ammounts,,,,,,,

solar pannels work..... why aint every 1 got them?? cost........ but over time they will level out due to howmuch there saving....

see the logic,..... they aint gona change them yet, but i can tell u mate ask them there thinkign about it

[firefighter]

lol and my grow shop said the same thing too ''holland dont use them''

can u tell me why on side by side grows a 300watt pulled 256grams and a 1000watt hps only 4 grams more?? now hows that for cost effectivnies,

260 g and a 1000 watt HPS? That is no good job.. 300 watt and 256 g is a standard job.

But you know, I am not for or against LED's, i just do not see really good results in flowering. we are all waiting for a replacement for HPS.

What they meant were the vegetable and flower greenhouses.

And this growshop Im talking about they really know what the are doing becuase they are/ were big growers themselves and every word they said was worth it's weight in gold, really for more than 18 years. And I do not trust most of the growshops these days ut this guys...)

[Chimichanga]

• 
  
  
  
  
  
  Weights:
  
  
  Total: 514.6g
  
  
  Led: 254.1g
  
  
  HPS: 260.5g
  
  
  Bubble Hash: 18.8g total
  
  
  • 
    
    
    300w LED vs 1000w HPS Hydroton Drip Grow
    
    

  [*]http://www.rollitup....-1000w-hps.html

think is he used another 2x 300watt panenels not even 1000watt stil.... i mean ...ummmm

[gicker]

Traditionally, successful indoor hydroponic lighting solutions employed powerful High Intensity Discharge (HID) lights in order to simulate the intensity and required wavelengths for Photosynthesis. It is an adequate solution but a very inefficient one. Even the highest quality High Pressure Sodium bulb produces only 30% of usable wavelengths for photosynthesis, with 70% of the light completely wasted. This loss can be measured by specialty scientific instruments and advanced light spectrum analysis devices. Traditional HID lighting systems consume more power, produce an inefficient spectrum, and produce significant heat. These factors contribute to a very high operational cost and the need to address cooling solutions which can come with additional energy requirements of their own.

LEDs have existed for almost 50 years, but until recently, they lacked the light output and energy efficiency necessary to make them a viable alternative to traditional lighting solutions. Since 2008 the lumen output per watt of LEDs has doubled, and the best LEDs are now on par with HID lights in terms of lumens/watt with one exception, they are far more efficient.

Based on research done by scientists at Cornell University and other horticultural centers, Technology-Hydro-culture.com has developed LED lighting products that optimize the usable light wavelengths absorbed by your plants. Neither HPS nor MH bulbs provide significant light output below the 580nm wavelength. This means that one of the largest portions of the light spectrum used by plants (420-455nm) is not supplied by either HID product. Additionally, the majority of HID output is in the green-yellow spectrum which is not only reflected by plants but also barely used in Photosynthetic reactions. The most important wavelengths for plant growth and flowering is found at the 420nm, 450nm, 630nm, and 660nm wavelengths. Red is more important for flowering and yields, and blue more important for node intervals & faster growth and absorption. We deliver these wavelengths, scientifically balanced for maximum efficiency. What once was 70% of light wasted is now light harvested. Technology-hydro-culture use a optimized blend of individual 60 degree, 90 degree, and 120 degree LED chips. In the configuration Lighthouse Hydro has designed, light coverage for the grow area is maximized and light penetration is increased when compared to lights using a single spread angle LED light.

Not all light is created equally. And neither are LED lights! At least not as far as plants are concerned. HPS, MH and T5 bulbs produce a spectrum that is fixed and based on the filament or phosphors in the bulb. Even the industry's best bulbs are only 32% efficient.

The above graph is the output of one of the leading HPS bulbs in the market. As you can see the majority of light emitted is in the yellow and green spectrum. These colors are NOT used by plants (hence the reason the leaves are colored green, they reflect it!)

take a look at the graph below, this is the spectrum that the plants actually use!

this is commonly referred to as the "photosynthetic action spectrum".

here is a graph of the light output of the lighthouse hydro uv models:

Technology-Hydro-Culture UV LED lights use a specific ratio of individual LEDs to maximize the vegetative growth and flowering production of your plants. With a greater percentage of individual LEDs in the red spectrum, and the added Ultraviolet spectrum to signal day and night light cycles that naturally occur in nature, use of the UV light will result in faster flowering times and greater yield for your plants.

The graphs speak for themselves. Neither HPS nor MH provide much lumen output under 580nm. This means that the largest portion of lights used by plants 420nm-455nm is not supplied by either light solution. The peak lumen output is 580nm, 595nm & 615nm. As you can see, that translates into a loss of about 70% efficiency when overlaid with the light used by growing plants. Thus, a 40,000 400W HPS bulb translates into 12000 actual usable lumens. These charts are available from the HID bulb manufacturers and widely distributed, touting that they are closest to the natural light output of the sun. The most important thing is, plant's don't use all the light from the sun, they flourish when very specifically tailored wavelengths are used.

The final analysis is that the most successful growth is found at 420nm, 450nm, 630nm and 660nm wavelengths. Red is slightly more important for flowering but blue produces faster growth and absorption. It is also important for plants to get more 630nm-660nm wavelengths because it is reported that those wavelengths determine leaf diameter. Larger leaves will make a larger plant. And who doesn't love a big tomato plant! Larger leaves lead to larger surface area for further absorption.

Technology -hydro-curler .com

For all the people in the dam look .

Regards

[Chimichanga]

there ya go LED farm

[gicker]

Lol nice one

[firefighter]

there ya go LED farm

It looks like a test or promo greenhouse of a LED manufacturer. The website is not there btw....

Anyhow, I am not a technician or technical scientists and I believe what I see the big commercial growers, vegetable or weed are getting when it comes to results in weight of flowers.......and yes, I really believe that during veg LEDs are as good as HPIT or HPS.

[gicker]

Look, we al do what we do ,you your way and me mine.

I think LEDs are the way to go, that's all .good luck to you .

Regard

[firefighter]

Look, we al do what we do ,you your way and me mine.

I think LEDs are the way to go, that's all .good luck to you .

Regard

yes, right it is absolutely not about comparing dick sizes. Just show us the end results and the weight in flowers you get out of this tent with how many watts, ok?

we still get 300 g per 400 watt HPS minimum, up to 450 g.

[Chimichanga]

It looks like a test or promo greenhouse of a LED manufacturer. The website is not there btw....

Anyhow, I am not a technician or technical scientists and I believe what I see the big commercial growers, vegetable or weed are getting when it comes to results in weight of flowers.......and yes, I really believe that during veg LEDs are as good as HPIT or HPS.

http://ledhydroponics.co.uk/ add a .uk lol damn pic isnt of size

[gicker]

Hi green amp are in the ca,and prosource are in the USA.

There is a green lamp in the uk but thay get there LEDs from china and I do not lick that ths USA prosumer are mad in the good old USA .

You had a look at the picks I out on .

Regards

[Chimichanga]

http://ledgrowersfor...5cdc473f225942f

ever seen an LED think difference auto like this???

yeah man your grows sick what did ya end up with or is it ongoing

[gicker]

Not yet. Full info later

[Herb Johnson]

My answer to you question is not so straight forward.

Firstly what is better led or hps?

For you or the environment?

LED's use much less power to run and there for have a smaller carbon footprint so, LED's kick ass

But on the other hand hps globes pump out lumens that LEDs yet can't match.

So my question is best for who? Your pocket , your plant, or you planet?

If you have deep pockets LEDs.

If money is an issue hps

If you care about the environment and money is an issue try using both to start( use a 400w not a 600w and use LEDs or fluro's as sup lighting and slowly build up the LED's until they match the 400w hps lumens. Then you can remove the power guzzler.

I use a single 400w hps and a 130w fluro as a sup light in a tent 1.2 x 1.2 x 2 and I can grow 4 nice sized plants in there.

I have mostly used Sunmaster hps

And Philips SON-T (which I'm using at the moment)

IMO the sunmaster is a better globe for flowering

I'd be interested to hear what hps globes others are using and how they perform

[gicker]

But on the other hand hps globes pump out lumens that LEDs yet can't match.

Hi there please do not get therong impression , I am no expert .

So just like most people you believe it to be about lumens ,that's a word for the bipedal mean,to

Say how much light comes out not what a plant takes In .

I could say like this, (Jumbo UFO is equivalent to a 600W HID. Now we're not saying that the 180W Jumbo UFO emits more Lumens output than a 600W HID, but to state that the Illuminator Jumbo UFO emits the same amount of absorbable light as a 600W HID and it is this ability to only emit key absorbable light that your plants are able to use that makes it possible to achieve the parity results with an HID at just a fraction of the wattage. Lumens output is not a key factor in determining plant growth, it is the ability of the plants to absorb and transform the light energy into photosynthesis and which wavelengths are to be used to achieve those key absorption points. Lumens are a common measure of output that is used to measure the intensity of HID Lighting, but really has no direct bearing on determining plant growth. Remember that over 85% of the light emitted from an HID Light is waisted in the form of non-absorbable light waves as well as heat energy.)

Tex from prosource.com

As to the rest all I think about is this why do people think it's about LUMENS all the above for me is fact ,but for you I think not and that's ok.

And why are we as a society not thinking about the real benefits of this plaint to this planet and all the people on it.

And if you do look at this think abut it long and hard,lumens do not count according to the scientific calculations that's out there to day.

No offence is intended in this response.

Regards

[firefighter]

LED's use much less power to run and there for have a smaller carbon footprint so, LED's kick ass

It is off course good for nature to consume less energy, but carbon? Pleeeeaaaaase and my greetings to Al Gore and his carbon taxes.....that is as good as the catholic church in the middle ages when they traded delusionally "sins" for money and gold

In the end as I said, it comes down to how much flowers do you get out of your tent or by squaremeter? Let us just compare this and we will see....

[Chimichanga]

lumens is nothing man every light has lumens but yet soem lights will kil a plant or not even be seen by them (green lamps) but stil have lumens.. a candle is a lumen, so if i get enough lumens i can grow?? so more candles?? hmm

PAR is the correct measurement howmuch PAR from lights, and LED outdo HPS that way giker owns with a faceslam

[Herb Johnson]

Firstly i was stoned when making that post and i did generalize things a lot... I know lumen isn't the best way to measure growth as it is a subjective measure since it is based on the response of the human eye. PAR watts directly indicates how much light energy is available for plants to use in photosynthesis.

I didn't think it was necessary to go into the science behind how plants process light so I simplified things down in a stoned logic , as most don't care how they work they just want to know they do work....

and i also generalized about the carbon footprint.....

Pleeeeaaaaase and my greetings to Al Gore and his carbon taxes.....that is as good as the catholic church in the middle ages when they traded delusionally "sins" for money and gold

A carbon footprint takes into account more than just the carbon dioxide emitted from a given product..

A person’s carbon footprint is the total set of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide, methane etc emitted by him and his activities. Similarly carbon footprints can be calculated for a product, an event or an organization. The carbon footprint depends on three factors

The nature of greenhouse gas released - carbon dioxide is the most commonly maligned green house gas but it is not the only one. Methane emitted by cattle is a much more potent green house gas. To solve the problem caused by the different green house potential of different gases they are converted to their respective carbon dioxide equivalents.

The amount of gas released and -

The place where the green house gas is released - Thus airplanes that release green house gases at a high altitude are considered to have a carbon footprint that is 1.9 times larger than if the same quantum of these gases had been released at sea level.

The carbon footprint is now calculated by using a cradle to grave approach i.e., it is a holistic calculation involving production, transport, usage and disposal for a product.

So are you disagreeing with me when i say that LED luminaires contain no harmful substances, like mercury, lead or other hazardous chemical and gasses.

And spent LED lamps can be thrown away without any special handling or disposal requirement,since they are recyclable and environmentally friendly.

And other light often have hazardous materials such as lead and mercury which require special handling and waste management procedures which have both economic and environmental costs?

So the "carbon footprint" of a HID globe is still being calculated long after you have washed your hands of it !!!

A LED's footprint ends once it has been recycled.

So its nothing like the CHURCH,

its about knowing what impact on the environment your choice of product has, before, during and after you purchase it....

So I guess what I was trying to say in a stoned and off the top of my head way is that LED's are better for the environment and if you have the cash to spend on them go with LEDS but if money is an issue get bang for your buck with a HID and take into account the environmental impact your purchase has.....

[firefighter]

A carbon footprint takes into account more than just the carbon dioxide emitted from a given product..

A person’s carbon footprint is the total set of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide, methane etc emitted by him and his activities. Similarly carbon footprints can be calculated for a product, an event or an organization. The carbon footprint depends on three factors

I do not care if it has 100 factors. It is a religion to put people into fear and squeeze money out of them and it's high priest is Al Gore with his Church of Climatology. There is no global warming that is made by humans or animals. 2000 years ago it was much warmer here. Most likely we are facing a small ice age now. Do you know why the vikings travelled to Greenland in the 8th century? Because it was a green country with no ice......only after the 10th century the had to leave because it was getting colder and the glaciers were growing. But this is OT....