ShaggyGrower - White Rhino and BIO Feeds test

[ShaggyGrower]

Hi @I'm Sal,

 

I hear what you're saying, but for me, assumption is the mother of all fuckups.

 

I can guess/assume I *know* the ppm / ph / weight / temp / humidity / etc, but by guessing, I could be wrong.  So why take the risk when I can measure?

 

Some of the problems I have had have been due to not measuring enough, such as when my calmag spray went from 6.25ph to 8.1 in a week.  One point on this: I need to invest in a vastly more accurate ph meter, as the three I have, after a few days, they give different readings (~0.2 ph difference. One might say 6.08, the other 6.23 and the other 6.28).

The numbers I am chasing are the number I want my feeding solution/water & run off to be, etc.

 

I'm still a newby grower so I don't have the experience and confidence yet to guess-load, fire and forget. 

 

I'm not that good at lifting the pot and guessing whether it needs a water or not, so a slip a scale underneath the pot when I'm lifting it and take a measurement.  Yes, it takes longer, but the measurements give me confidence on my path rather than adding to my anxiety.

 

I agree I move the plants around a lot.  I shall work on that.

 

Happy Growing!

 

 

 

[LedCherryBerry]

Luckily, we humans evolved by learning from our mistakes. 
We all make mistakes, and sometimes, even if we don't fuck up, shit hits the fan by her own.

I've always heard NOT to move plants (say, indoor-outdoor-indoor) as they adapt to their enviroment, and any change can stress them really to the point of dying.

As of the burns.. We'll just have to wait, i guess. PH is a true bitch.
Another thing to take in account is the Soil's PH itself: they vary a LOT.
Example is the soil i'm using (BioBizz All Mix) which, if watered with my sink water (6.8 PH) runoff comes as a perfectly neutral 7.0.
Yet, my greenhouse soil (actual dirt) is far more acidic: if watered gives off an awful 5.8 PH. I guess it's the influence of tomatoes and such.

Just sayin that it's worth checking it out before-hand.

Lastly, i got to agree with Sal: too many numbers deviates attention from what is deserved. It's good to keep track of numbers, but not to the point of going crazy after them. After all, weed is a plant like other plants. You plant it, feed it, harvest it. I don't think nature cares as much as we do with nute density, PH, EC etc etc. Ofc this is a controlled enviroment, but don't let the numbers control you

Hoping they survive this bad phase.

Cheers!

[ShaggyGrower]

Hi @LedCherryBerry,

I've still to understand why it's not good to move a potted plant from one place to another.  I can understand indoor to outdoor as, for example, outdoor they have more chance to pick up pests.  I can understand that in moving them, there's a chance one could break a branch, etc.  So there are risks, and there are also rewards (natural light has more spectrum than many artificial lighting systems, and it's free.

 

Yup, ph can be a bitch, especially when it moves around on you like my foliar spray (not the H2O2 one). Like you say, I think it's best to check (with measuring device) beforehand.

 

The numbers I produce, while looking complicated, are fairly simply for me to note down.

Weights: Lifting pot onto scale - only slightly more time consuming than lifting & guessing.

Ph: ph meter. Important to measure imv, and important to have a device that measures accurately.

EC/PPM/Temp: All on one device for me, so noting down numbers is easy. Now I'm guessing, but I don't think many readers actually read my data thoroughly, as I put  test error figures in the data the other day (Saturday) and nobody has picked up on it.  Bottom line, the responsibility for checking the plant is getting what it needs, rest with me.

 

Anyhoo, I've transplanted 6 into a bigger pot (~4l). They're all looking much, much better today having been watered only ph'd 6.2 24hr aired tap water (ppm 330) and under the blue 125w CFL.

 

So, we're back to Happy Growing!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LedCherryBerry]

Sincerely, i absolutely have NO idea of why moving a plant from one place to another can result in such issues.

I might get rational, and think this:
- Rapid light potency changes;
- Rapid light spectrum changes;
- Rapid temperature changes;
- Different, unfiltered air.

If, say, you move them from one room to another, while maintaining all the things i've said above, there should be no issues (say indoor-indoor, same equip, same temp, and air is filtered for the whole house). 
I think that plants recon the enviroment they're growing in, and therefore if any change is done, they'll need to adapt multiple times INSTEAD of focusing on the grow itself.

I also think that a change in spectrum and light potency might indicate (for the plant) a change of season, as yes, the sun has the same output, but it's what different zones of the planet receive that makes up the climate and enviroment of that particular zone.

I'm sorry if i can't explain better, i wish i could insta-translate my italian

Cheers!

[slimjim]

Moving pots could upset medium cause it to move

and that cant be good for roots and to many changes

isnt good either. 18.6c is a bit low bro look at light

meter.

Here we are again less is more, applies so many times

in the growroom.

Peace

 

[ShaggyGrower]

Recovery going well I think (Top right = M; bottom right = 3; Top left = 5; bottom left = 6):

 

5 & 6 are (relatively) motoring along and have stretched more than M & 3.  I wanted a bit of stretch compared to my last grow as these should grow short & bushy (heavy indica) and my last ones only got to ~60cm (apart from JW which is 90cm due to Miracle Grow I suspect), so I'd like to try to induce a bit of height early.

They're all still way behind my last grow (I topped DD & Nebula at day 13, the day before I switched them to 18/6), but I suspect they'll catch up in time. Today is day 27 from sprouting through the media for M.  6 was 29th (so day 16), with the others in the middle.

As an aside, I thought I knew what a Scrog was, until I read this: http://www.growweedeasy.com/scrog-tutorial

 

I can kinda see what @I'm Sal is doing with his weaving now (awesome btw).

 

If I did a Scrog, I think that would help my desire to move my plants around (ie, stop it @slimjim).  I shall give it some thought.

 

Happy Growing!

 

[ShaggyGrower]

Hi @I'm Sal,

Give it a day or two and perhaps the excitement of me reading that SCRoG article will wear off and something new will have taken over.

 

I'll build the frame anyway, as that'll at least keep my hands off my plants for a bit  

I'm thinking three node pairs this time as well.  IC had three pairs, the others have four. Some of the stems of the four-node plants are a bit week, and with three I would still have enough green to spread about (just four plants for me, five has been a bit trying so glad I'm only doing 4 this time). 

[ShaggyGrower]

The same as one of @I'm Sal's WR, I also have one ("6") that has decided to start developing a set of 3 leaves on the fourth node

 

 

 

Notice leaf 1 has six petals.  Some lower ones have four.  This it's genetic as I think all of mine have at least one even numbered petals on a leaf.
 

Happy Growing!

[g22]

 @ShaggyGrower

Must be great to top with 3 head 

This plant has grow well since the h2o2 burn 

[ShaggyGrower]

8 hours ago, g22 said:

 @ShaggyGrower

Must be great to top with 3 head 

This plant has grow well since the h2o2 burn 

 

Yes, doing better, and after a 6 hour sleep this afternoon (their night), I noticed she has another 3 leaf/stem node growing, and perhaps even a third 3 leaf/stem node!

 

Below is this morning and on the right just now:

 

 

Happy Growing!

[g22]

a six head with 2 node lol

[ShaggyGrower]

The WR's are back under the 300w LED.  

 

I'm comfortable with 5 & 6 (top right [tri-leaf/stem & bottom right respectively) being strong enough to take it. 

 

M & 3 (bottom left & top left respectively) not happy - something up with their media I think. I'm tempted to dig them up (chuckle, joking!).  Not sure whether to flush the fuck out of them, or leave them be and let them try to work it out themselves.

 

 

Happy Growing!

 

 

 

[g22]

hi shaggy i would like to know if your leds are doing a lot of temperature in your tent and wahts is you temperatur in your room because my temp is to high in summer with hps i gone try cooltube but hesited with leds 

[ShaggyGrower]

9 minutes ago, g22 said:

hi shaggy i would like to know if your leds are doing a lot of temperature in your tent and wahts is you temperatur in your room because my temp is to high in summer with hps i gone try cooltube but hesited with leds 

 

In the small tent, it was up to 31c just now with 60% humidity.  30c is the max I'd like it to be (~85f, as that is maximum photosynthesis rate), so I opened a little flap at the top so some hot air can escape (hot air rises).  Leaf temp is 33c (88f).

 

The ambient temp in the room the tents are in is 23c right now (down to ~19 at night).

 

My LED is defo producing less heat than the HPS, but it's only 300w (135w real) compared to 660w (700w real according to my measuring device), so difficult to compare.

 

I'm guessing, but I think in a larger tent with more air movement and extraction (which my small tent does not have), I think temps would be easier to control with the LED than the HPS.

 

 

[OG.Naj]

Hello @ShaggyGrower,

 

Shame that you make mistak with bad solution. anyway now your plants looks good,

 

What your watering strategy? Becarefull, with coco, the medium love more hummidity that in soil medium , En maybe it is just on the pics but I see your medium is very dry,

 

Have a nice sunday dude

[ShaggyGrower]

• Hi @OG.Naj,

 

My watering strategy for 5 & 6 is very light  0.36ec/180ppm/6.0ph watering (aired tap water only) when below base weight to get to just above their respective base weights. 5 & 6 seems to be liking this approach.  5 & 6 will likely get re-potted into 11l pots tomorrow.  5 & 6 have a media containing more perlite than M & 3, and this seems to be working well, ie, liking it very dry, so I'll continue this in the 11l pots.

M & 3 I think are in dodgy media, ie, I think that the media I prepared has gone bad somehow.  The rest of that media, I've donated to my vegetable patch.  M & 3 have been below their base weights for a few days and have been given just a splash of 180ppm aired tap water. They are now below their base weights again (200g) and will get leached tonight (8pm, their lights on) with 4 x pot size 180ppm solution and then left to completely dry out again.

 

Happy Growing!
 

[OG.Naj]

Thanks for the infos dude!

 

 

Have a nice and productive week !

[ShaggyGrower]

M & 3 are dying.  Wonder if it's linked to the huge gnat fly infestation I seem to have in the propagation tent (hence the yellow sticky traps being out).  Could be lots of things (gnat flies / gone-off media / watering / ph / h2o2 / too much feed/whatever), so I'm not going to dwell on it as I won't be able to work it out.

 

5 & 6 are doing great with no food just aired tap water. 5 (the tri-leaf/stem) has been  transplanted into an 11l pot.  They've not had any food yet (Enhancer or BioGrow) and I will feed them when they're asking for it. 

 

Another thing I've learned - only use clay pebbles in the final pot.  Transplanting 5 to the 11l pot was difficult to say the least with clay pebbles at the bottom of her pot. I'll have the same issue with 6.

 

5 into new pot:

 

 

 

 

The propogation tent:

 

 

 

Poor M:

 

 

 

Poor 3:

 

 

 

5 looking great even after the transplant last night from her pebbley pot:

 

 

6 will go into a 11l pot today with Canna Coco Pro & Perlite only:

 

:

 

Happy Growing!

 

 

 

 

[LedCherryBerry]

Hey buddy,
Listen to an idiot (ME) and don't use Clay Pebbles.
I found my clay pebbles more alkaline than expected (7.5PH), so that's the first bummer.
Second bummer is, yes, they help draining, but they also retain water, to keep moisten the media. This is a double edged sword: if it retains water, it will retain nutrients, making the bottom much more acidic, and possibly leading to rot and other PH related issues.

Instead of using clay, if you want a good drainage, try using actual stones. Take em, wash em, and create a layer of 2-3cm of little stone pebbles. They'll drain, never retain water, and maybe give some micronutes as stones are generally fullfilled with minerals of sorts.
Or, place a good layer of perlite. 
Or, buy cloth / air pots. in my Bagseed grow, i've used regular pots, and they dried in a matter of 6-8 days. RN i'm using cloth pot, and it dries in 3-4 days, making it perfect for feeding once a week, twice every watering. The pot i'm using is 18L (7L more than yours), so that should be a good comparison.
Last resort, you could use an air pump and dry the bottom of the pot (while also supplying the roots with fresh and direct oxygen), just like in Hydroponics you use an air pump to keep water and nutes in movement. If it stays stagnant, it'll lead to indeed rot and mold, and other related issues.
I found Clay works perfectly with tomatoes. Don't ask me why, i don't know. They just love clay pebbles 30-40cm below the surface.

Anyway, your girls look like they're recovering fast. 
I would remove now the 2 dying girls, as they'll be only a bummer (and delusion for you), and you'll probably try to save them in any way, wasting time and resources on dead plants. Instead, focus on the 2 living ones. They're going to make it. Just give them a couple more weeks to recover, and they should be fine.

Until your next update.. Peace!

[ShaggyGrower]

Hi @LedCherryBerry,

 

That Catch22 with clay pebbles is M & 3 don't have them and 5 & 6 did (2-3cm in bottom of pot), and 5 & 6 are going great.  I hate to change a winning formula.

 

5 .... you know what, I'm going to rename '5' to 'Tri', as in Tri-leaf/stem.  Tri does not have pebbles in her 11l pot, just compressed Canna Coco Pro & Perlite.

 

6, which I'll now call 'Bi" as she's a  .... two-leaf/stem plant, Bi will also not have them.  She'll get transplanted this evening (8pm, their lights on).  Bi had some water this morning, just a bit, hopefully enough to bind her media together ready for the transplant this evening.  The media she will go into will not be watered as usual as it has some moisture in it already from the bag.

 

Re. the clay pebbles, I had soaked [for ages] & washed (several times) the clay pebbles before hand. 

 

Just had another test with ph 6.55 water. Put a load of clay pebbles in it, twizzled it around, waited 5 mins. Ph went up to 6.65, so only a 0.1 increase.

 

I'll give those air-pots a go next grow.

 

Happy Growing!

 

[LedCherryBerry]

I missed the part where you washed clay pebbles beforehand. Well done.

I also just noticed the tri-leaf. I gotta say i haven't payed the right amount of attention to your grow, so i probably missed a lot. 
I'm going to take a deeper read when i get back home.
Tri leaf.. That's so cool! Rare (but not too much) mutation, at least you got an extra amount of colas!
Never grew a tri-leaf cannabis plant, so i don't really know what to expect from it:
Will she grow tall like her "bi" sisters? Will she focus on leaf production, instead of height? Who knows, we (and mostly you) will just have to wait and see.. Interesting!

I get what you mean by changing a winning formula. We all find ours, mostly after years of trial and error.
I think i found mine, with perlite and soil, and the elevated pot with airflow beneath. 
I also think you will find yours, if you haven't already

See you in these days. Cheers!

[ShaggyGrower]

Gave Tri and Bi a dose of Grow this morning.

 

This is their first feeding of anything other than what is in my tap water (181ppm when ph'd to 6.1) and the Canna Coco Pro & Perlite they're in.

 

Today is Day 26 for Tri and Day 23 for Bi., since sprouting.

 

Pretty sure I've burnt the frak out of M & 3 by giving too much Grow & Enhancer as well as their 'hot' media needs more Perlite or similar, so drowned roots/root rot.  If M & 3 make it, I'll mention them again. Until then, M & 3 are quarantined in The Dungeon.

 

Got 1 litre of 6.1ph aired-for-three-days tap water (181ppm / EC 0.36 / 22.8c), added a heaped teaspoon of Grow, stirred thoroughly, then gave them 500ml each. Edit: looked at notes, and the above mix gave a ppm of ~1000 (EC 2.0). WAY too 'hot', so I diluted it down to 654ppm (EC 1.3)

 

The reason I did it that way is because I found with M & 3 that I was adding a lot of water to get the Grow that was spread on the surface to go in.

 

Overwatering is the bane of my growing existence, so I had to change the application method.

 

Mixing a dose with a little water will hopefully distribute the Grow better through the media than if I had dumped it on the surface and splashed water at it.

 

Yes, I could have added some grow to the media in the pots I transplanted them in, but I feel that I would make the media too 'hot' and not being able to take it out afterwards (I think you have nute burn @g22 ) .  If I give too little, I can always add more.  Less is more  

 

They're in the HPS tent again while it's on. I want some stretch on these short bushy indicas so the LSTing I plan will garner me lots of space between nodes/stems/colas.  The LED goes over them when they go back into The Dungeon (propagation tent) [from 7pm - 7am].

 

Happy Growing!

 

 

Edited February 21, 2018 by ShaggyGrower
see edit

[ShaggyGrower]

M & 3 after chopping off the really damaged/dead leafs.

 

 

The stem leafs did grow a bit last night after the chopping, so there is hope if there is new growth I think. There's always hope, right up until there's no hope

 

Happy Intensive Care Growing!

[ShaggyGrower]

M & 3 are back on!  They look like Christmas trees due to the defoliation of the dead/dying leafs I did. 

They are Rhino after all - very thick skinned, tough and hardy!  Well done on the genetics GHS - they should be dead by now, but they're not.

 

 

Removing those leafs seems to have invigorated the plants.  Interesting.

 

 

I guess many growers would have binned them, or would still bin them.  Not me.  I dug them into this hole, so my job is to dig them out (not literally @slimjim) and get them to harvest (ie, live a life).

 

Tri & Bi going great guns.

 

 

Top left [M] is 36 days old; bottom right [3] 33 days; top right 25 days [Bi], bottom right [Tri] 29 days.

 

There's a little something new in the middle, for just in case M & 3 did not make it.  Root!T cubes seems to work ok at getting the shell casing off, although I had to do surgery on the other as it tried to push up through the sponge where there was not gap.  I simply need to inspect the cubes better next time.  I shall be using those cubes all the time in future.

 

I hope to top Bi and Tri and use that topping as cuttings/clones - my first attempt at cloning. I shall let them grow a bit first.

 

M & 3 will get topped as well in a few days to they can concentrate on those side shoots.

 

Happy Growing!

[g22]

hi shaggy the yellow paper is to catch mug,... ?