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Gios LED - Coco Experiment


giovanni831
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Hello all,

I am new to the Strain Hunter Forums and have recently undertook a small experiment. I have only grown in active hydroponic sysems, mostly focused on Aeroponics and Deep Water Culture. I have decided to try out coco-coir as a medium, as well as utilizing LED as a lighting source. I have a limited amount of space so I figured I would try some experiments with LED.

Grow Info:

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Environment: 3 plants - Indoor / Coco Coir, 1 plant - Outdoor / Coco Coir. (vitals below apply to indoor)

Lights: 2 @ 90W UFO tri-band, 2 @ 3000k 7.5w tri-phosphur LED (emits missing spectrums)

Temps: day - 79F / night - 74F

Humidity: 40%

PH: 5.8-6.2 (veg 5.8 / flower wk 1&2: 5.8/ wk 3&4: 5.9/ mid wks: 6.0/ next to last wk: 6.1/ last wk: 6.2) - experiment

Pests: None Indoor. Outdoor one mild infestation of Leaf-Miners (removed leaves, sprayed w/ neem oil, pests eradicated).

Nutrients:

----- General Hydroponics – Flora Duo all through & Flora Nector and Liquid Koolbloom during flower.

----- Humbolt Nutrients - White Widow (beneficial bacteria)

----- Hygrozyme

----- Epson Salt

----- Protekt (silicate- only used if plants are stressed.)

Current Strains:

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Name: Sweet Black Angel

Breeder: Samsara

Genetics: Black Domina x Super Silver Haze

Variety: 80% Indica - 20% Sativa

THC level: 18%

Sex: Feminized

Flowering Time: 7 Weeks

Harvest Month: Early October

Production : 500-1000g. /m2

Previous Strains:

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Name: Diesel Ryder (auto-flower)

Breeder: The Joint Doctor

Genetics: New York City Diesel x Lowryder #2

Smoke Report:

Flavor: Not as pronounced, but diesel flavor is there. Background flavor is slightly citrus.

Effect: Medium strength, quick effects. Medium cerebral high, similar to Sour Diesel, but not as strong.. Pain relief, but not alot of body effect which is suitable for a daytime smoke when you have things to do. Lasts about one to two hours.

--------------------------------------------

Name: Shot Adrenaline

Breeder: Samsara

Genetics: White Dwarf x Skunk

Smoke Report:

Flavor: Flavor is slightly acidic citrus, possibly grapefruit.

Effect: Strong cerebral high that comes on pretty quickly and increases over 20-30 minutes after smoking. Mild floating head effect and good pain relief without any couch lock. More active which is suitable for a daytime smoke. Lasts about two to four hours.

Previous Strains:

========================

Name: Diesel Ryder (auto-flower)

Breeder: The Joint Doctor

Genetics: New York City Diesel x Lowryder #2

--------------------------------------------

Name: Shot Adrenaline

Breeder: Samsara

Genetics: White Dwarf x Skunk

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So here are the images that I have over the last few days since starting these plants.

Here is Day 3 after breaking ground:

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Here is Day 7: ***This is where the funky growth in the Diesel Ryder started***

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Here are a few images from today. I still cant figure out why the Diesel Ryder wont grow right. I am only leaving it in there in hopes that it is a male. I would like to get some seed stock. I wanted Diesel Ryder seeds, but will settle for a cross between these two. I will just selectively breed the subsequent seeds to get what I want out of them. Its takes too long for seeds to get here from Holland. The Shot Adrenaline is growing pretty good, and starting to increase it's growth rate.

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I took the sick looking one out to better light by the window for an image that was more clear. If anyone has a suggestion, I would be grateful. I would like to get this one growing in the next week so that it is worth saving. I have never seen anything like it in the many plants that I have grown. The first leaves are small, and the stems are long. No other leaves will grow, but it is increasing in height.

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It´s a mutand, RUN!

Actually i seen those before in my own grow. My experience tells me the will grow back normal as soon she get a hang of teh real world.

How long do you need to wait when you order seeds? Getting your own stash of seeds is a sweet thing, one MJ plant would last you for a long time.

I hope you get what you want bro. Good luck.

You are not lying, this little ugly thing is a trip. I have honestly never seed a plant do that, cannabis or other. Usually they either grow or die, not suspended animation =).

Very nice grow room man, and some nice experiment :)

I'll be following that test for sure, Leds coco and autos, oh yeah ;)

Thanks for sharing man, and good luck with that mutant

Thanks, I had limited space in my apartment so I put a little something up in the corner. I can not justify spending money on a grow tent to breed seed stock. The plan is to tear out the panda paper, hose it down with peroxide and re-purpose it in my garage for storage. I prefer to build my grow rooms than buy tents. I am particular about layout, and the tents dont leave me enough room to work or keep everything clean. I try to keep it as sterile as possible, so that I dont have new diseases every week....plants, not me =).

you got any more info on those leds they look good :)

The UFOs that are in there actually were second hand. I have a buddy that runs a shop out by Oakland, and he called me up and let me know that someone was in there trying to sell a few of them for $75/ea and I told him to check the diodes and specs for color wavelengths. They are tri-band and the spec sheet says...

Red 630nm, Blue 460nm, Orange 610nm which falls in the range that I wanted. Everyone including manufacturers swear by 660nm only for the red, but I am thinking that the 630nm combined with the 610nm, I think it will do well. Most think that the orange range is completely useless, but that is not true, I have done experiments and can say without a doubt that the orange, yellow, and green bands may not directly do anything for photosynthesis, but the lack of them is absolutely evident. Now with that being said, I dont think that you need them in the amount that HPS puts out. I'm not talking smack about HID lights, because it is what I have always grown with up until a few weeks ago. I have also used T-5 lighting with great success. I just think that there is a more environmentally friendly way to approach horticulture. Obviously the sun being the most eco friendly, however, i live in California, and unfortunately, there are a lot of scumbags that would rather steal your plants than learn to grow. I will give them clones, nutes, and books if I thought it would help, but most people are too lazy to learn. That is also why I order my seeds from Holland. Everyone here has a medical card and they try to grow, unfortunately, they more often than not produced diseased plants. I have had a few clones tested and they have a high rate of fungal infections. I refuse to bring home PM and boytris just to have plants.

Sorry for the side-quest, just kinda typed itself. So short answer, they are the same as all of the chinese knockoffs on ebay and other sites. I had them measured, they are roughly 145 PAR, which is relatively high for some cheapy lights.

Good luck and welcome to SH forum!!

Nice setup thanks to share ;)

Thank you sir.

Images in next post.....

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Here are images as promised....

Here is the Shot Adrenaline that is starting to pick up some momentum. I actually came across a bottle of Floralicious Plus that was in with the rest of my nutes, that i decided to include in the feeding. I didnt use it very much before when doing aero (gummed up my spray heads). I did use it in my DWC buckets though with good results. Hoping the humic and fulvic will help out with the coco. I know it is a good breeding grounds for beneficials. The mycorrhiza seems to be thriving.

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And here is the little sick one....

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Good luck and welcome to SH forum!!

Nice setup thanks to share ;)

Thank you Mr. X.

Starting to get a true cannabis shape and spreading out nice.

Yeah, I am not a fan of the first week when they look like green bean sprouts =). I think I might throw a small 6500k cfl in there to try to get a little more height out of them. Still debating though. This experiment was supposed to see what kind of results I got out of cheap LEDs, and dont want to throw extra lighting in there and skew the results. I wanted to try that before investing in more elaborate lighting. I wish I currently had more room to run side by sides, but it will have to wait until I buy a place that has a garage. As I have mentioned, I used to run T-5 for veg and HPS for flower, but got tired of the power bill. At one point I was paying $1200/ mo (USD) for my power bill to run about 8000w of lights. That is way too much not to mention the heat footprint that throws off. Im not necessarily trying to be stealth because I am doing everything legally, but I am an environmentally conscious person and cant justify wasting power. I am in the process of testing these, then if the results are favorable, I will try a better LED. I plan to test Plasma lighting next, I have a buddy that gets them at a discount so I can pick up a 300w for about $900.

My real issue with the more expensive LEDs is that they all contain higher wattage diodes, and I know from my research and electrical knowledge that they are not as efficient as 1w single diodes. All people talk about is canopy penetration, but I think it is easier to adjust a grow than buy new lighting to accommodate an existing one. I think LST, topping, and super cropping is easier than trying to buy huge lights. It all seems like a d**k measuring contest to me =). I have had 6-7-8ft indoor plants and it is a pain in the ass to manipulate them to get proper coverage.

Love those LED vegged girl, always looking so healthy with a nice color.

Thanks for sharing, keep them growing fast :D

Thank you. Im trying to get them to grow as fast as I can brother, but sometimes they wont cooperate =). I will take the pots out to good light next set of pictures to get a real idea of how they are doing.

***UPDATE***

I am honestly pretty happy with the cheap LEDs. The larger plant is starting to pick up about 1cm/ day and seems to be increasing its growth rate exponentially. I have about another week before it starts to flower and I would assume subsequently stretch. Never done autos, but I will assume it is like all other plant biology that it still gets a stretch.

The mutant is growing now. Instead of growing new shoots from between the stems, they blew out of the side. The growth is twisted as well, and I am fairly certain that it is a genetic flaw more so than a nutrient issue. They are too young to experience any real deficiency, IMO. I will get an image today or tomorrow for show and tell.

In addition to the two that were in there, I germinated the Samsara - Sweet Black Angel that I had. I scuffed it, soaked it for a few hours and then threw it in a paper towel and had a 2cm taproot in 24 hours. It is in coco now and waiting for it to break the surface. I have 3 weeks before I need to take cuttings from it for my outdoor grow. Works perfect for my climate because I need late flowering plants. Right now outside temps are 105F+ so I have to wait for it to cool off here before planting outdoor.

Thanks for tuning in everyone, appreciate the comments.

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Okay, here is a quick update. I needed a break from work for a few minutes.

I have been keeping the nutrients at about half of what is suggested as the feeding schedule. I normally have my EC a little higher, but I am still trying to find the sweet spot for working with LED.

Here is the Shot Adrenaline that is doing great. This is day 15 and I see the first view of litttle pistils, so I expect her to start stretching soon.

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Here is the little funky growing Diesel Ryder that I cant seem to bring myself to throw outside =). I have a soft spot for this thing for some reason. Honestly I have a sneaking suspicion that it will end up being a male. I need some pollen in my life. I honestly do not know why I am still keeping it, it is apparent that there is some effed up genetics in there. I guess it is something telling me that I can still selectively breed it and try to stabilize it over a few generations.

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Here is the Samsara Seeds - Sweet Black Angel that I decided to veg in here for outdoor grow that will be coming up. I will take cuttings on 7/15 and veg those until 8/12 at which point they will go outside until 10/7 when I hope to harvest them. Trying to get these girls relatively tall, so they will probably get moved out of this cabinet and into a floro veg room to get a little height out of them.

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So here is a quick status update....

The Shot Adrenaline is starting to look like a plant now =). Long white pre-flowering hairs are out and she will be going into flowering in the next few days.

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Here is the little Diesel Ryder that was having severe issues. I left it in there and it came out of whatever was wrong with it. Now the new leaves are looking good.

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Here is the Sweet Black Angel that was planted the end of last week....

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sweet man girla have had a good growth since last update :)

The adrenaline gots a nice look as always ^^

Thanks for the update ;)

Have a good grow

Thank you sir. Yeah the Adrenaline grew about 6cm in 6 days. I don't have any experience with autos, but I think that isnt too bad. I am seeing more hairs popping out, so it is definitely making the switch. From everything that I read online and my communication with Samsara, the flowering is supposed to kick in 3-4wks in, so I am right on par.

As for the Diesel Ryder, I am hoping that the plant is smart enough to realize that there were some development issues in the first couple weeks, and that the flowering will be delayed. I believe that I am beginning to see some female sexing =(. I was really hoping to get some seed stock out of it. I might go ahead and PH stress it into developing some male flowers. I really dont want to pay $15/seed (12eu) for more autos. I am considering using the Sweet Black Angel as a mother and just running the clones 12/12 as soon as they root. Im thinking that I can keep 6 of them small enough to fit under 2 UFOs until I buy some lager LED. Either that or do 1/2 LED 1/2 CFL to be able to get some decent yield out of them. I guess I should wait for this cycle to get done before I start plotting out the next few grows.

****QUESTION****

Anyone with a little more experience with Autos.... I was thinking of trimming off the couple effed up leaves from the Diesel Ryder or just let them be. With regular plants I would clear the garbage off over a few days so that it isn't burning up energy on leaves that aren't going to process everything anyway. I have been told by a few buddies that grow autos to just leave it alone and not trim anything off. Any advice would be great.

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as long as the leaves are not dying i would let them until the girl get a little older and has more leaves.

If they start yellowing and lose vitality cut them.

For the rest of the grow, with my autos i've trimmed them during the flowering and they didn't really care ;)

but each strain will react diferently so best is to try out ;)

Good luck man

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Sorry about the delay in an update. Things have been a little hectic around here with things other than the few plants. Anyway, here is a brief update and some pictures:

This is the Diesel Ryder that turned out to be a female and too small for me to justify leaving under a 90w UFO. I decided to put it out on my back porch since it is small. Don't expect much out of it, but don't like to throw away plants....

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Here is the little Sweet Black Angel that I planted last week. It is growing slowly, but I expect it to speed up now that it has a dedicated light.

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Lastly, here is the Shot Adrenaline. She picked up some height over the last week and is starting to look better. I would like for the new growth to look a little more vigorous, but I expect that to taper off as soon as it stops stretching. It is up to 33CM now and still picking up height on a daily. The nutrient level is up to around 900-1000PPM (EC: 1.8 - 2.0) now and it looks like she could take a little more.

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ANY INPUT ???

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I been considering putting a little something in there for a bloom booster but don't think I want to use KoolBloom in there. If you're not familiar it is GH brand bloom booster with 0 - 10 - 10. I usually have no issues with it because I was always in hydro. From what I understand, coco runs high in Potassium so I was thinking of using something else. I have a bag of Earth Juice Seabird guano that is at 0 - 8 - 1, and I already have it here. I am thinking that will help me to get high P in there while still adding a little K.

Like I have said a few times, I am new to coco, so I am still trying to find a good recipe for nutrients. I am trying to get a little more organic where I can. I use organic CaMg, Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate), and floralicious plus. The only thing that isn't organic is my base nutes. Any suggestions that you might have here are greatly appreciated.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey man nice update those girls seem to like your UFO :)

About your bloom booster question, i personally use the Green sensation from plagron it is a 9/10 PK and has very nice results on my girls :)

But i don't know if it suited for coco too sorry, but i'm sure a little looking on the web will answer that question ;)

Have a good grow and keep the pics coming they should have grown by now

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Hey man nice update those girls seem to like your UFO :)

About your bloom booster question, i personally use the Green sensation from plagron it is a 9/10 PK and has very nice results on my girls :)

But i don't know if it suited for coco too sorry, but i'm sure a little looking on the web will answer that question ;)

Have a good grow and keep the pics coming they should have grown by now

Sorry for the late response, I was gone for about a week looking for a job. I actually did a little more research on the best coco bloom boosters and see that most people recommend something that is high in only P as there is alot of K already in the coco. I am not too sure how I feel about the accuracy of that yet but will do a few tests on the next round of plants to find out. I appreciate the response though brother. Update in the next post (which has a little bad news unfortunately)

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Here is an update for week 7 of these auto-flowers that I am trying out. I left for about a week and unfortunately the coco dried out a little too far for my girls. There were no casualties which I am crediting to the little bit of silicate and mycrorhiza (Mykos) that I have added. The little ugly deformed Diesel Ryder that I put outside is actually doing great. The fan leaves are starting to die off. Both autos have had only bird guano (0-8-1) and a little calcium this last week and I think I will just run that through this week coming upand harvest them this weekend. I have never had an issue running organics until harvest.

Diesel Ryder: I dont think this is too bad seeing how bad of condition this thing was in when I threw it outside. At least I will be able to taste it to see if I want to get some more of these seeds.

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Here is the Shot Adrenaline that unfortunately dried out too much while I was away. I took a look at the trichs and it looks like it has about another week or so to go. Hopefully I can get the flowers to finish opening up between now and then. I have been foliar feeding on a daily to try to nurse it back to health. From what I can see, it is dealing with a severe P deficiency and a mild calcium deficiency. I am not too worried about the Ca with a week left, there is nothing that it will hurt other than the leaves. I have been trying to pack in the bird guano to try to get the flowers to finish opening. They are literally like rocks right now and I would prefer for them to finish opening up so that it will be fluffier and more fragrant. Im not too worried about it at this point, I have the Sweet Black Angel still vegging and have taken a few clones off to throw out on my porch to flower.

So here is the abused Shot Adrenaline (looks like a rookies plant. lol):

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I will take a few pics of the Sweet Black Angel that is vegging with its clones. Still trying to decide if I want to run Autos or if I want to go back to running a perpetual with photo plants. I been looking at the math for power consumption and it seems like I might be going back to photos.

Autos: 8wks @ 20hrs (20 * 7 * 8 )= 1120hrs * 200w = 224000W / 1000 (kWr) = 224kWh@$0.185/kWh = $41.44 per cycle.

Photo: 2wks @ 18hrs + 8wks @ 12hrs (18 * 7 * 2) + (12 * 7 * 8 ) = 924hrs * 200w = 184,800W / 1000W (kWh) = 184.4kWh@$0.185/kWh = $34.18

This is obviously not a big deal with it on this small of a scale, but I try to do my part for the environment. In addition I am thinking that with photo period plants I will be able to flower as soon as clones root and are 5-6in tall and do four small plants per light. I guess I will try a cycle and see how it goes. I think that I will have to get a few cycles of coco up under me before moving on to autos. There were way too many unknown variables for me to achieve the level of success that I am used to.

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nice update man, glad to see they survuved during your absence, they do have little damages but like you say it's no big deal at least they are alive ;)

I hope they will continue to flower nicely until the end man,

HAve a good grow and keep us updated ;)

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nice update man, glad to see they survuved during your absence, they do have little damages but like you say it's no big deal at least they are alive ;)

I hope they will continue to flower nicely until the end man,

HAve a good grow and keep us updated ;)

Thanks Dust. I am a little disappointed about this one, because all of my data for this grow is irrelevant now that I effed them up. I knew I should have hooked up the home made watering system. Im not too devastated over the plants, I am used to having at least 10 or 12 plants at 100-200cm a month so this was not too bad ;). I am preferential to photo period so that I can have total control over the grow. I think that autos are great for personal smoke, but I can not really make an opinion until after I work out the coco.

With that being said, I believe I have made some advancements in my nutrient regiment for coco. I know that coco has a little bit of K in there that it slowly releases, so I did not use my normal Liquid KoolBloom ( 0 - 10 - 10 ) and went for Earth Juice sea bird guano ( 0 - 8 - 1 ) to compensate for the naturally higher K. In addition, I am finding that if i mix my nutes at about 60% and feed with every watering, I get better results. Of course you have to do a flush every 3-4 weeks, but no biggie. Also, since coco tends to bind Mg and Ca, I have stopped adding it to the nutrients and have went for foliar feeding of them. I do them both at the same time with a little General Organics CaMg+ and some Epsom Salt. I would just use the CaMg+, but I wanted to up the dose of Mg and get a little S in there. I used to use Technaflora Sugar Daddy and got great results, and it is only a 10% solution of Epsom Salt and they are charging about $20USD/L and I get 2Kg of Epsom salt for about $5 that has lasted me a year. That was with 6*100L reservoirs running. I have decided I am running the guano all the way to the end on these since it is 100% organic and I need to try to force the flowers open. I know they are opening up because the smell is back and it only took a few days.

I had missed this detailed grow with alot of grow porn, bad TOKAGE!

You doing good, but you dont need me telling you that. photos is all we need to look at. One thing i have seen on auto strains is that they most of the time get alot of suger, perfect for making hash.

Next time, see if you can get a photo without the led light on all of them. I like to see them naked

;)

Tokage, you have not missed anything brother, I have not got started yet :cool: . This was a trial run with the coco, LED, and autos. I am not going to run autos in this next round, so I think it will be better. I am getting a handle on coco, I was trying to treat it like dirt, which I have never used for ganj before. I am a hydro guy and I am seeing that I need to treat coco just like the hydro, but go a little lighter on the nutrients. I honestly would love to do hydro still, but in an upstairs apartment, something tells me I am better off with the coco.

I will take a few pics for you later on today and get those up here for you. I have to post pics of the Sweet Black Angel that I started a few weeks ago too.

I am not too sure about the sugar levels for the autos being higher or not, but this is not as frosty as my plants normally are. Honestly, it is the Epsom Salt that does that. The Magnesium and Sulfur make the plant produce more trichomes and flavanoids. I also use Flora Nector, but any sweetener will work. I have used Blackstrap Molasses with great success before. I seen a few people using honey online, but I am not too sure that it works. I know that honey and agave sweeteners are really low on the glycemic index which leads me to believe that you will not get as good of a carbohydrate load. I prefer molasses and cane sugar (hence the floraNecter). Give the Epsom Salt a go in your next grow on a plant or two and you will see that they smell more, taste better, and have a higher THC content. I have done side by side and had them lab tested and the ones with Epsom Salt came out a few percent higher THC.

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Hey Tokage, here are those images that I promised you. The second set is of the Samsara Sweet Black Angel which is a female photo period variety from seed. I have more experience with photo period and like to take off the bottom portion of the plant (lollipopping) so that I get better canopy coverage. Old habit from my T-5 flouro days. I honestly used to get some killer plants under those. More so than HPS, hopfully that does not stir a huge debate on lighting :).

Sorry that I could not get any macro shots... Using my mobile and although it has a good camera as far as phones go, it is not capable of genuine macros. I will pull out the microscope tomorrow and get some shots of the trichomes for you guys.

So here is that Shot Adrenaline without the LEDs on...

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Here is the Samsara - Sweet Black Angel and her babies. I had one casualty out of the six that I cut, thats why one of the starter containers is empty. I left it there and keep watering it because I need all the humidity that I can get. The humidity levels where I am living go below 20% frequently so as you can imagine, it is a problem. Its funny because before moving here, I always had to run dehumidifiers.

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So I cut down my two little autos today and thought that it was funny that it only took about 20 min to hand cut them. I am liking that alot more than hunched over a chair all day with a pair of scissors.

I took a few pictures but there isn't really too much reason to post them since there is so little weight. I will get some microscope shots of the trichomes after it dries. Here were the weights:

Diesel Ryder - 14g(main cola) + 11g(the rest of the plant) = 25g Wet

Shot Adrenaline - 13g(main cola) + 40g(the rest of the plant) = 53g Wet

I trim everything down while it is wet so I lose about 65% wet weight. When i would trim after it would lose about 75%. Probably end up with a total of around 30g after it dries. Here is a picture of the Shot Adrenaline so you can see how it looks wet. I will get images up after it dries with a smoke report.

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Here is the Sweet Black Angel (SBA) that I LST'ed and have it outside now to flower. Plant is supposed to finish in the first week of October. I will get some more pics of the baby SBA plants in the LED closet tomorrow before they start growing and getting trained.

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congratz on your harvest man :)

And thanks for the news of the SBA she looks nice :D

Have a good grow

Thanks Dust. The SBA is outside loving life. I put it out there yesterday and it is starting to "pray" like it is super healthy. There is a little bit of purple in a few of the stems that I am trying to figure out what it wants. Im adding more N so it is either P or K. I think that maybe it is because I have been going light on the K since I am told that coco runs high in K. I am starting to think that information is not as accurate as people make it sound.. I will add a little more and see how she does.

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