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White Widow, Stunned Growth?


sliver1
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Yo so here we go first thread eva xD:crown:

GHS White Widow(Indica) and Red Diesel(sativa)

around 20-30degress celcius i think in there (varies alot).

Lights: 4x18W Flourescent Tubes (2Grolux, 2Aqua Glo. both Sylvania)

Medium: 7liter pots, 60%Soil 40% Clay Pellets (Leca)

White Widow 20/06/2010-21/06/2010 31days 12cm tall, 6nodes, looks fine, droppy leafs, weak/soft stem, red stem, stunned growth.

Red Diesel 18/06/2010- 21/06/2010 33days 19cm tall, 8nodes, looks fine, soft stem.

16hours of light 06:00-22:00

very dark green leaves (both), red stem(both), round edges(WW), slow growth(WW).

The problem might be Phosphorous deficiency, root bound at the bottom of the pot, over watering (dont think over fertilization due to no brown, yellow or dead leaves). I have flushed once :)

Nutes= BioBizz Alg A mic (0,1-0,1-0,1), Bio Grow(8,0-2,0-6,0 ), (Bio Bloom not used(2,0-6,0-3,5)) and Fish Mix(6,0-2,0-4,0 ). i also added Epsom Salts cus i thought at a time that the problem was Magneisum (it wasnt) it didnt affect the plants at all :).

I started with Fish Mix, then bought the other three then started using Alg A Mic on WW due to problems showing, and i used Bio Grow once on the Red Diesel.

Please dont comment that theres no mylar or panda plastic, either that i should use HPS,MH because i dont wanna xP

Red Diesel.White Widowdroppy leaf WhiteWidow

Nodes White WidowRed Diesel Nodesred stem White Widow

red stem Red Dieselroots, White Widowroot, Red Diesel

I just want to thank

Primz

Fuzzy

White Rhino

biggreenbuds

and many many more i cant remember names of for helping me out :) :*

Selah.

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hey i really think at this moment it is over watering and you just over fed them. they are currently stressed and are slowly gaining there vigour back. its hard for me to say though at this moment. i need you to add pics everyday of progress so i can better my answer for you. all in all though they look pretty good just a lil stunned and they can easly be fixed

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Guest superbluehaze

The roots are not getting enough oxygen.

when this happens the plants are unable to absorb nutrients, and display all sort of nutrient deficiencies.

How often do you water?

Let the soil dry right out, put your finger down into it to a depth of around 6 inches, if it feels wet do not water.

Wait until it is dry.

Foliar feed(with lights out).

you do need more light, ( 18 years or up to 24 hours in veg). I would suggest you use a 150 watt compact fluro, or else use cool white tubes for growth, and warm white for flowering.

You must cut back on the water, or these plants will die from root disease.

When the room is warm (25 plus) the plants take up mainly water, so cut back on the nutrients and feed them for 1 week or so through the leaves.

hope this helps you,

happy growing,

john

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Hello

Thanks for all the replies so fast :)

I dont really think that the roots have had any damage just yet, because they all look niice and white xD

Well overwatering might be a prob? but normally they respond like yellowing, brown and roots looks bad, but these roots looks so nice. I will try and let them dry out and then start watering and then wait with the nutes ;)

(theres alotta links after this? cant edit it out xD)

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Guest superbluehaze

it is not that bad yet that the roots will show any damage;

but the shape of the leaves are a dead give away that the roots need more oxygen.

Benificial bacteria do wonders for the roots

With the tubes use cool white, they give a high level of light in the blue spectrum for veg and warm white, which are high in red, for flowering.

These tubes emit much for usable light for the plant, than the tubes you are using.

Mix the tubes, say 2 cool white for veg plus a warm white and then 2 warm white for flowering, with a cool white.

If you had a compact fluro grow light say 150 watt or even better 250 watt, you will increase your yeild 6 fold if not more.

Do you have a oscillating fan to make the stems strong and to circulate the air?

More light, more energy for the plant = higer yeild.

happy growing,

john

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Guest superbluehaze

Let them dry out real good.

Then next time you water use some hydrogen peroxide; it loses a molecule of oxygen and then is just plain water(h202).

A 50% mix of coco fiber and perlight is a great medium; it is similar to soil but drains better.

water displaces the air in the pot, as it fills up all the air pockets; as the pot loses water and drys, it allows spaces for air.

I hope this helps, happy growing, john

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Sliver my man, Girls look ok but can def tell they bounchin back from a big deal of stress. Does seem like a Water & Oxygen issue but nothing that cant be sorted. Worst case situation mate just repot and give just PH water for a week then start feed sched again but remember to add good drainage.

SBH is right also a good bit of coco fiber couldnt hurt at all :)

PEACE

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Forgot to tell you that im gonna use theese to take 1-3 clones and then put the plants into flowering under a HPS (250W). then ill choose the best looking clone(s) and use them as mother plants :) just added 31watts of CFL as side lightning xD (not that much, but iam going to amsterdam in a month where im gonna get the HPS and might buy big CFL 150w or more wink_smile.gif

Primz what do you mean by worst case? xD (pretty scared) but iam not really sure how to add Coco Fibre or more clay to increase air at the bottom of the pots. because they are'nt root bound all over so i think if i try and pull them out ill just snap the roots :(

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like me and john said. your problem is most likly your plants being over watered which is not letting your roots breath [ get oxygen] oxygen is crucial to your plants life. thiink about it this way we as humans need oxygen imagine being trapped under 5 feet of dirt and not able to breath ? as for right now i would leave your ladies alone maybe maybe maybe give them a lil nutes in a foliar feed then justlet them dry. the only reason everything is droopy and weak righht now is because your plant is not worrying about growing right now its just taking all its energy to try and fix it self.

dont take your root ball out quite yet i would give ita little longer and get ytour plant stronger and then we can worry about that

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as for the pictures we do not need any pics of the roots. how they are is fine. i would like you to keep updating daily photos or every other day so we can see the progress and help you along so you dont run into anymore problems. as for what the pictures should be of ... i would say just the plants in general some top ones and some side ones. also a couple close ups of any damage on leaves if you have any. also can you try to make your pics about 6 times the size they are ? its hard to give a good answer with such small pics. as for rigth now though just wait it out let the flush do its course. btw you did flush right ? how did you do it

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Guest superbluehaze

wait until the plants are root bound before you transplant.

The extra light will help a lot.

A plant should be 8 weks olde before you take clones.

Read my section on cloning in advanced techniques. section.

Do not worry, the plants will come back fine.

happy growing,

john

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do you know what your pots size equal to in gallons ? maybe your pots are large enough to keep them in there for there life span.

i would really read the the section on cloning that john recomended. this will help you alote just like any reading will. if you take the time to learn by reading and studying picutes it will be much more simple to you.

also make sure your plant is in healthy standing before you take a clone. if your plant is unhealthy your clones most likely will be too also will be more probe to disease and pests.

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Guest superbluehaze

Your pots are large enough for around 7 to 8 weeks of growth.

The main thing with clones is the thickness of the stem.

If you take clones from a stressed palnt, they will always be sickly and cause you problems.

Healthy plant = healthy clones.

Once a plant is flowered, it can be regenerated, and will come back; I have had plants I flowered over 5 times, and they were over one year old.

This is the best way to go, as if you take clones after the crop has been harvested and tasted, then you will have a better idea which plant you want to keep, and the plants are more physiologically developed, and more clones can be taken.

I can guide you through the whole process.

Any questions on clones, just let me know and I will help as much as I can.

happy growing,

john

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Yellow shades_smile.gif

thanks John for begin so nice :) actully thanks everyone... sorry Tokage forgot to thank you in the first post confused_smile.gif, but thanks my man.

Well John i was thinking, if you take a clone from an unhealthy mother, that clone will be unhealthy to ofc, but if you keep taking clones and they allways get alittle healthier will the last clone in the end be healthy? xD dunno if you understand what i mean hehe.

Well heres photos from yesterday and today xD

Yesterday all my troubles seemed so far away:

It is like that they looked like improving xD Red Diesel growing amazing and branching out a whole lot, White Widow looked like getting stronger not as soft actully both looked stronger. alittle droppy leaf still on White Widow at the bottom, and now i look at the photos i actully see "the spots" (dam dam daaaam...) (heres bigga pictures xD cant seem to make them bigger then 626x470 fore you will not be able to scrool? so you guys wont be able to see the whole picture, if i make them bigger)

Red Diesel

White Widow

Red Diesel, side

White Widow, droppy leaf, spots

Red Diesel, leaf burn (light)

White Widow

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Guest superbluehaze

good on you - your plants are looking much better, but notice the tips of some leaves are bend down ward, this means they still need a little more oxygen. Leave cut back on the water just a little bit more, maybe wait an extra day before watering again.

Stress causes genetic drift with clones.

To be cut from the mother plants is the most stressful thing that can happen to a plant, and it must have achieved a certain amount of growth, and be a certain stage of physiological maturity to not be crippled by this stress.

Cutting can not get better, and recover from this.

A cutting taken from a stressed mother plant will never achieve anything great things.

Cloning is taking a cutting from a MATURE female plant in the veg stage and inducing it to grow roots.

Each clone will replicate the mother plant in every way: size color smell taste etc.

Each clone, however, will display individual characteristics as regards vigor. Some will take longer to form roots, and this is usually due to environment factors.

It is , therefore, necessary to have mother plants of outstanding quality. T

he newly rooted cutting can be flowered straight away, or put into veg to attain a larger plant. As soon as a clone is larger enough, you can begin to take cuttings from it to, if necessary. if done correctly, contrary to rumor, this can be done indefinitely without genetic drift, and therefore no loss of desired qualities.

You should take no more than 30% of the vegetative material from the mother plant, nor should you let your mother plant become too old.

A stressed mother plant produces cuttings that take longer to root and yield poorly.

THE CONDITION OF THE MOTHER PLANT HAS A DIRECT CORRELATION TO THE YIELD PRODUCED BY HER CLONES.

take no more 20 to 30% of the vegetative material off each mother plant take cuttings from a mother plant NO MORE than 3 times.

Each time to take cuttings take more than you need, and take some to start new mother plants. WHEN TAKING

CUTTINGS FROM PLANTS GROWN FROM SEED YOU MUST WAIT UNTIL THOSE PLANTS ARE AT LEST 8 wEEKS OLD

I hope this helps you,

happy growing,

john

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YO!

Great help thank you! xD sorry for not posting ... i got stressed hehe xP had so much going on harvest,lik i got 105 seed off my Garden Ganster and only 10gram smoke:S, and i have 10 Blueberry seedlings growing fast hehe xD) the White Widow looks alot betta. Top shoot isnt growing alot tho, but the branches are growing xD it was like still stressed yesterday but then today the branches grew like 1cm or some thing xD so very happy hehe and summer vaccation started, muehaha xD some bottom leaves on the Red Diesel are turning pale green? iam thinking that they dont get enough light . I flushed today, soil where totally dry xD (only had time for 2photos xD) by the way i have taken the Red Diesel out of treatment xD it is fine no problems anymore. so ill start feeding it on monday ,trying to follow Primz sched : water-starve-feed-starve-water-starve-feed. but i dont think ill be able to do that because the root mass isnt big enough to suck up all that water and food xD

WW branches

WW just flushed)

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Guest superbluehaze

Congratulations your plants are healthy again.

Remember to let the soil go through a wet and dry cycle.

Knowing when to water is an art, but an art easily learnt if you let your plants guide you and watch them closely.

Wait until the soil is feeling dry when you put your finger into the medium.

If the soil feels dry at the depth of your middle finger, then water again.

This way the roots get plenty of oxygen and are able to take in nutrients.

Your plant still needs more air at the root zone, leave watering the plant for a extra day, and watch.

In a few days you will see a vast improvement with leaves pointing straight out from the top of the plant right down to the bottom branches.

That is when you know the roots are real healthy.

Very healthy roots mean a happy, vigorous and high yielding plant, that blooms beautifully and yields magnificently.

happy growing, john

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things are taking a turn for the better and looking good. like john said make sure you stick to the wet dry cycle. if you recently flushed make sure you do not water again with food until your soil is fully dry. try 1/2 strength nutes at first if organic and if its not organic start at 1/4 strength. see how they like it and keep going up if they seem to do fine. if they seem to get a little nute burn and not take it wll go down a little. we dont want you to have to do another flush. make sure you only foliar feed once a week and not everyday, its normal for the top to not be growing right now even though it really is you just might not notice. but since plant has been getting quite bushy in the nodes its going to start pushing those branches out and put the energy there for right now. but trust me things are on the rigth track and everything is gonna be great if you stick to the simple stuff and dont over water again also make sure you do not over feed either.

i hope you are taking the time to read that begginers guide to indoor growing & common mistakes by indoor growers i put together for you, it may seem boring and stuff but trust me its really all about the simple things that really make a difference once you can really understand this and master these simple things you will not run into these problems.

how long has your plant been living from seed now ? when do you plan on switching to flowering.

btw what type of cfls are you using ? day light , soft white , cool light ? it matters actually which ones you use depending on if you are flowering or vegging

good luck sliver. looking forward to following

~ Bgb

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thanks all xD

had a sleep over at my friends house and when i came back i noticed more growth on both! they're branching out nicely now xD iam just afraid that my White Widow's lower leaves will die off due to no light :S

and my Red Diesel is looking amzaing, growing fast, but the 2 bottom leaves are totally yellow? iam thinking Magnesium or Nitrogen deficiency hehe

Biggreen i havent printed it yet (no ink) but i read alittle xD so thank you so very very much! wish i could pay you back in a way :)

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Guest superbluehaze

hi silver1,

A plant is continually growing and this means old growth yellows and dies, and most of this happens at the root zone;

this also affects the top of the plant.

Do not worry about the yellowing unless it starts to spread further up the plant;

Then you will know it is a nitrogen deficiency;

if it is magnesium , the new growth, at the top of the plant, will look yellowish and pale.

I hope this helps,

Happy growing,

john

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if your plant is yellowing leaves and starting from the bottom and moving up most likly it means it is root bound and the plant needs to be transplanted into a bigger pot.

as for you worrying about the white widow leaves dying off because they are not getting light. dont worry about this. the branches will stretch out to get the light.

i would look into transplanting. if your leaves keep yellowing and moving up from bottom than transplant.

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