Info and prices on LED Grow lights.

[F.V.K]

thats hillarious dood to say a see3d co will never exagerate or lie...ive posted the inerse square law pages ago and still waiting to see fcats how tey proed it wrong...you keep posting sales info not factual info

and tokeage led cost the same bud...a watt is a watt 300 of led is exact cost as 300 hps. and then for those that say its about cooling and havin fans and so on for sdaving...well you are suposed to exchnage air even with no heat. so should be having them fans anyways no mater what light. need to deal with the smell somehow also, so again still needs fans. fans and venting are not only to do with heat of room.

so yields arent important is what im reading??...i guess if some are ok with tiny plants, no plant chemistry dont say led is better, just the salesmen say that...still lacks output so it cant be better

i have no problem with guys using or trying led..dont matter to me..i just hate the lies and exagerated info with no acts..i harte new guys getting conned by salesmen

so were still awaiting this fact stuff to dissprove inverse square law.

[URBANNINJA]

Guys save some Bucks and get the right Panels i do my reserch since a friend changed to led in 2011.......Lambs is going the right way with His Elitegrow Panel....but u can get it cheaper on diffrent Manufactors....Big Thx To Wiethoofd for linking me up......... defo changing to Led in the next 2 Month then its going Pro LED in Ninjahs Grow Village.......

be careful with Cheap Chinese Panels u might buy twice if u think cheaper means better

[F.V.K]

longer run time???.you mean they last longer?..id hope so for the rediculous cost compared to a 60 buck hps bulb. my crop is worth te cost of a new hps every 3 grows. big deal, least of our expenses. the bigger yields pay for them on their own.,

ventin has the least to do with the heat, venting is abut o2 and co2 exchange they need. not just heat, thats just a bonus to also take out the heat. and the venting for smell is the same to as thats more for room dimensions,...so i guess since ed dot light a room fully the3ir could be slight savings not needing a bigger fa for sell being in smaller rooms..but yield is less to in small room, so to save we give up end result so to me isnt a savings again.

ok i see how this is in here. cant post the truths on salesmen crap, i thought we wanted to know truths and stop being conned? do i not have a right to post truths? im not mouthing off or swearing at anyone or being rude or making personal comments to the guys. y comments are directed to the sales mumbo jumbo, not the poster.

how would you know what i get dood.i havet shown any harvest....lol c-mon why the insult dood. stick to the light info and not insult my growing please. and im not running them heavy commercial crap white strains either. you just told me dont compare to others and ten go and do it to me...lololol..

i know you didnt say salesmen say chem says led work...i said salesmen do...i said not you, all you said was chemistry says it does ad i dissagreed.

[F.V.K]

so how many lumens does each diode have? since thats been avoided and is the whole flaw in thier sales pitch

[HIGH 4 LIFE]

F.V.K I live in north america and I see more and more people going to LED lights , yes there are more that use HID lights then there are that use LEDs right now.

I am in no way a sales man because if I was why would I give every one on here the info on how to get a hold of the company’s that I am looking at. And Im going to be putting up the prices that I would get them at not what I will sell them at I thought the purpose of business was to make money not brake even!

Also F.V.K if you do not like LEDs then please stay out of here you don’t seem to be interested in them what so ever. You only seem to want to talk shit about them if you are happy with your HID lights that's cool Im happy for you.

Lamsbread , Tokage thanks for putting good helpful stuff up.

URBANNINJA if you have a link or info on the place your going to get your LED’s from please feel free to post it, Im sure others would like to see it.

On the Chinese Panels Im looking at they have good 3-5 year warranty’s on them and most could be fixed by anyone that buys them and the company’s will pay the shipping for the part to you. They also use good quality

Right off the top of my head I know that one runs there 5w leds at around 4.6 w another runs there 5w at 3w. One runs there 3w at 2w and another runs there 3w at around 1.8w.

This was made to help others that are interested in LED grow lights not to fight about what’s better HID or LED’s

[lamsbread]

I found this post on grasscity.com and it was written by "TechBuudy", it is an insightful post that attempts to answer some of the points raised.

Read it, think about it & it might make things a bit clearer.

If it doesn't answer any questions then as I have mentioned before let us agree to disagree and I'll just do my grow for people to follow and they can make their own minds up.

Here is the post -

In regards to your first question about PAR scale and what is useful: the "PAR" scale was designed in order to give some vague sort of standardization to measuring light that is useful for plants. PAR is far more useful than lumens/watt, but it's still not exact. Because different plants have concentrations of Chlorophyll A and B and a wide range of carotenoids that utilize different frequencies of light it was difficult to come up with any sort of exact measurement. In 1972 a scientist by the name of McCree proposed that anything between 400nm-700nm was useful, and based on quantum flux readings it's sufficient to treat all frequencies equally for simplicity.

What this means is that, for example, an ideal light emitting 100W at exactly 560nm (pure green) is considered "PAR" light. However less than 15% of that energy can be used by marijuana plants. So really you're not applying 100W of "useful" light, you're only applying (for argument's sake) 15W. But according to the PAR scale it's 100W.

Now take a look at the emission spectrum of HPS - the vast majority of it's light is in the 575-620nm range, with the peak at 570nm - exactly what the plants cannot use. I haven't done the integration yet but I'd estimate that 40% of the light emitted by an HPS cannot be used by the plant. So right off the bat you're wasting 40%, and that ultimately turns into heat which (usually) has to be removed at a high energy cost, further compounding your energy requirements. Your air conditioner spends 0.3W to pump 1W of heat out of the room. That's 1.3W completely wasted for every 1W of unusable light.

LED lights have very specific emission spectrum, so these grow lights avoid the areas that the plants cannot use - this is why the pictures look so oddly colored.

So consider that most LEDs and HPS bulbs both have "lumens/watt" efficacy of about 150. The PAR lumens will be much less than that for HPS, but pretty much identical for LED because you select the LEDs that are within the PAR range.

Furthermore just like how PAR is more meaningful than lumens/watt, the useful energy/watt is even more specific, and that's where LED will really shine (pardon the pun). This means massive increase in efficacy in terms of usable light per watt despite the "lumens/watt" being roughly the same.

To put this into some non-technical numbers anecdotal evidence suggests that 300W of LED is about the same as 800W of HPS (yes, there are debates still on this, but let's assume that this is correct for the moment). So that's 500W of additional "wasted" energy, plus 150W cost to remove that energy, or 650W of additional energy cost.

At $0.13/kWh at an average of 16h/day over the entire 3-month grow cycle is $123 in extra electricity.

So if your LED setup costs $250 more than an HPS setup it will pay for itself after only 6 months. This isn't even addressing the issue of being able to place the lights closer to the plants, but that's a complicated topic for another thread.

To address your second question about the efficiency of higher wattage LED bulbs:

Fewer bulbs does not mean more efficiency. Bigger is not always better.

Looking at the specifications of lower wattage bulbs they tend to be in the 150 lumens/watt range. Higher power bulbs are usually in the 120 lumens/watt range - meaning you're spending more overall energy per unit of light.

This is the same as the 600W HPS vs 1000W HPS debate. 600W HPS is roughly 150 lumens/watt - 90,000 per bulb (give or take). 1000W HPS is only about 140 lumens/watt - 140,000 per bulb. If you scaled the 600W to 1000W you'd have 150,000 lumens instead for 1000W power draw. In other words you spend 7% more energy to get the same light output with the larger bulb. Three 600W bulbs will put out 270,000 lumens, whereas two 1000W bulbs put out 280,000 lumens. Only 10,000 lumens more, but 200W extra power required. Sometimes smaller bulbs are more efficient; Same goes for LED. It's more convenient and cheaper to use the bulbs with the higher output (which is why manufacturers use them), but the energy cost is higher. The people who build the LEDs aren't concerned with power draw, so the less efficient draw doesn't really matter that much.

Third point about inverse square law. Again this is a complicated topic, as it is not as simple as it is typically made out to be, but for our purposes we can assume that it is. Yes it does still apply here. Double the distance, half the energy per unit area.

However HPS bulbs emit light in 360 degrees, and this is really what is more important than (and the source of) the inverse square rule. You need reflectors and white/mylar walls to try to get as much of that light to your plants as possible. At a distance of 24" above the canopy (and assuming a 2ft diameter canopy) only 53 degrees of that light is directly hitting your canopy (again, this is a simplification). So the other 307 degrees (or 85%!) of emitted light has to reflect in order to get to the plant. Assuming a very generous 25% overall loss before that light hits your plant (due to multiple reflection surfaces, bouncing back into the bulb, not hitting the plant at all, etc) and 22% of your usable HPS light is being lost, again ultimately to heat (which requires energy to remove).

So, in a very large nutshell, this is why LED can be significantly better than any other source. LED emits light in a very tight beam - as tight as 15 degrees. These LED grow lights mix bulbs of varying focus from 120 to 15 degrees in order to get as much light directly to the plant without reflecting.

All of these factors combine to why 300W of LED can be considered equal to an 800W HPS light, and the energy costs will allow it to pay for itself within 6 months.

Reduced energy consumption also has additional benefits for the guerrilla grower as that means less overall household consumption. Even for the legitimate growers it means 2.5X the number of plants for the same household draw. Proper growing is limited by 5 factors, one of which is light. A house with 100A 240V service can realistically only provide about 80A 120V to grow lights, which if using HPS is only about 8000W or about 20 plants at 0.5lb/plant and 0.5g/W of yield. Using LED you can grow 50 plants (assuming the other 4 factors are attended to!) with the same yield per plant.

For Consideration and is seperate from the post above. I have provided this for anyone who might like to see whats new with HID's if LED not for you.

If LED is not the light for you, may I suggest you take a look at CMH (Ceramic Metal Halide) which combines the technology of both HPS & MH.

Lights such as "sunpulse" are the same technology and are sometimes referred to as "pulse start MH".

The philips "retro white CMH" is a full spectrum bulb that has an efficiency of around 40% which means it is more economic and produces less heat than a HPS.

There are also other CMH available with different kelvin ranges.

Here is a link to a 303 page thread on CMH - https://www.icmag.co...ic metal halide

Peace to all Strain Hunters Brothers and Sisters

we may not always agree or see eye to eye, so let us be united by growing our herbs to the best of our ability with the equipment we decide for ourselves.

By showing our grows here in the SH forums, other members can see what can be achieved by the path & techniques each member has chosen to follow and the equipment they use to grow with.

All the best & much love to all Hunters

Lamsbread

[F.V.K]

if you dont call saying some guys grow with less light than me and is better not an insult then i need to go back to school..wasnt a big deal. just pointing out the funny reading i see and since you havent seen anything from me i laughed at that t on your comment. you say the other has more but you havent even seen mine so no clue what that was about other than to insult

Ok so that is what you mean by the insult. Well sorry for that but you shown some of your plants and i´m been in this bis so long i can calculate out come. If you are allowed to use your expertise i must be allowed to use mine. But show me flowering plants and i will correct what i said if i was wrong. I´m never afraid to say i´m wrong.

In fact, i sort of like to be wrong...

If the post under was directed to me, well that is not my thing to answer. I debate something different and even gave you right about Hid yield Vs Led yield

[F.V.K]

dont forget on that lumens thing that you cant just add up each diodes output and call that its total lumens. dont work that way. ...and that comment on cmh are good...again for wharehouse lighting that the were made for and the ambiant lighting. not penetrating light like hid...its funny how man dont get how litght works still

[lamsbread]

CMH is an HID have you read the thread in the link?

Would you mind making a thread about HPS and the bennefits of it over other light sources in a new thread, so that others can respond to it there?

I am sure you have the all the best intentions to be helpful by posting your thoughts, but I have yet to see anyone have the same opinion or thank you for them in this thread or in other threads about LED lights.

If you were to take ownership of your opinion, in your own thread, it would reduces negativity to your answers and allow you to take the argument where you want & a place where other members can visit it if they want to read you thoughts on the matter.

you have had your say and made your opinions heard,what more can you ask?

Members have read, thought about them and have replied to your opinion & there seem to be very little head way being made.

Maybe? Do you think? Its time to move on?

This is a thread about LED prices and info about them , so to keep reiterating "your opinion" about said lights is not furthering the conversation.

Again i repeat to you - we may not always agree or see eye to eye, so let us be united by growing our herbs to the best of our ability with the equipment we decide for ourselves.

By showing our grows here in the SH forums, other members can see what can be achieved by the path & techniques each member has chosen to follow and the equipment they choose to grow with.

I hope we can reach an understanding , just because we don't agree on this topic, doesn't mean I won't agree with you on other issues & topics.

All strain Hunters are brothers to me, so let us show the love that makes this forum the friendliest around.

Happy growing & peace brother

Lams

[ChivoBuds]

I just went along and ordered 2 200W 11 band LED lights from eShine.

Guess someone has got to take that first step haha!

They seem to have offered me the same pricing list as they did to advancedledlight (which sell the same lamp as: https://www.advanced...led-technology/ ).

About the debate of LED adding anything to your grow, I recommend everyone to take a look at the spectre a good LED light produces, and add a HPS spectre to that.

The combo of HPS + LED gives your plants almost the full spectrum they use (+ UV and IR which are good for other things )

[F.V.K]

HPS is only about 8000W or about 20 plants

thats rediculous to only grow 20 under 8k..i have more than that under 1200...run the room proper so the info isnt stacked agaisnt the truth..pile them lies up guys....lol

[Exodus Please]

Has anyone got any experience of the deep impact range of LED grow lights.

http://www.quantumledbloom.co.uk/servlet/the-82/Deep-dsh-Impact-250W%2C-LED-GROW/Detail

It is a little more expensive than some of its rivals but has the latest CREE chips and 8 watt Leds.

Any thoughts, sorry if the link doesn't work!! :/

[lamsbread]

Has anyone got any experience of the deep impact range of LED grow lights.

http://www.quantumle...LED-GROW/Detail

It is a little more expensive than some of its rivals but has the latest CREE chips and 8 watt Leds.

Any thoughts, sorry if the link doesn't work!! :/

This is a light I was seriously considering buying and was on my short list.

This light is sold by various resellers and is know by different names depending on who you buy it from .

I will supply a list of alternative names of this light later as i have to dig out the notes i took when researching this light.

I have seen this light cheaper on other websites so when you have the list of different name you can have a look round to get the best deal .

Until later

Peace bro

Lams

[HIGH 4 LIFE]

Exodus Please Tokage is right the link works just fine. An lamsbread is right they are sold by a lot of resellers and is know by different names.

Exodus Please I would have a look at this as I think the are the manufacture of the lights and there prices are way better then the resellers. You will also be able to find about every LED light that the link you gave on this link all but the QUANTUM Zeppelin. I have also seen on youtube a grow that was done with Helios (Deep-Impact ) and it looked really good . I will look and see if I can find it again to give you a link to it.

Hope it helps.

http://www.bysenled.com/led-grow-light/h158d-140w.html

[Exodus Please]

Thanks for the replies Tok, Lams and H4L.

This is not something I am going to rush into. This particular light (and probably the renamed versions) carry some of the highest/newest spec I've seen using Cree (preferable to me),X4 lens and upto 8w chips, please correct me if that is wrong. I think the industry is going to keep exploding with new ideas and I am conscious that I might feel like I bought a 1984 Ford Capri in a years time if they produce the LED Lamborghini in 12 months time. Oh the worry!! I think this model might not be laughed at even in 12 months??

Thanks again for the level chats

Exodus Please

[Bigbrown]

Would be awesome to see a work between GHSC & a big light manufacturer to make a little serie of

highest quality 'new generation' LED-panels, maybe Lams can be scientist here?

Ex:

Let me present the GreenHouse authentic LED-series!

1 model called VeggieMaster with over 10 different blue specs!

1 called AutoPusher with 2 modes; fastveg/autobloom-mode.

ect.. i know i would pay a extra buck on a really top notch panel, esp if

they are like Lams say, kicking a HPS's ass..

Just a thought, peace!

[Dust]

haha yeah could be nice

[Exodus Please]

Old cars can be worth more

And I've had some old cars cost me a lot too!!

It's not so much the cost but the fact the market is moving so fast now makes me think the bulb life, energy efficiency and PAR outputs might improve massively, meaning smaller, quieter units for ganja hobbiests!

I have to say I would probably consider a 1984 Ford Capri.

My brothers eldest daughter is called Capri in the same way the Beckhams named Brooklyn!

Please noone PM me with classified ads for dated front wheel drive rust buckets!

[vdub]

Hello fellow LED Grow Light enthusiasts.

I created an account to reply to this post. I have been researching LED grow lights for about two weeks and will be purchasing one or two in the next few days (I will be buying LED, not here to talk

about the debate on lights).

From my online shopping research I have found that most if not all LED's (the actual diodes) are made in China, also most LED grow light panels are assembled and designed in China.

I came across this site:

Alibaba.com

This site is a business to business platform that connects buyers directly with manufactures in China. If you search for LED grow lights you come up with thousands and thousands of lights from many

different manufactures. Many of the lights seem to be the exact same lights offered by American dealers at a fraction of the cost. (I can show some examples if anyone would like). It seems these

American dealers slap there name on the panel and mark it up many times the actual price from China.

Ok, my question is, has anyone ordered any grow lights from any company that is on Alibaba.com?

I am assuming there are legitimate and illegitimate companies on a site like this.

I have tried to look on Google for reviews on some of the companies on Alibaba that seem to produce the most LED panels, but have not found hardly anything.

Here is a link to one manufacturer on Alibaba that I have been looking at and I really want to order something but Im scared of losing my cash.

http://bluesea-led.en.alibaba.com/

H4L have you ordered anything from China yet?

Does anyone know if this works or not?

P.S. Im starting a small legal Colorado Amendment 64 grow. Probably will have around 6-12 plants Looking to get about 300-600 Watts of LED panels (1 or 2) for me and then some more for a friend too so we can meet some of the minimum order requirements that these manufactures ask for.

Thanks for all your help.

Vdub

[ChivoBuds]

Vdub, Alibaba is the same website I've been contacting LED companies in china through.

Currently waiting for the chinese newyear to be over so I can complete my order at eShine!

[Dust]

never tried LED myself so can't help you on that sorry ^^ But can say welcome on the forum hope you'll find your answer

I know our photographer X uses a LED called EVOled and i believe they are all made in europe...could be wrong lol ^^

[vdub]

Thanks for the reply wiethoofd and Dust,

I took a look at eShine and their stuff looks pretty good, but i didn't see exact wavelengths and/or ratios that they use or their red/blue/orange/white/deep red ect... I did see that one

can customize it and that is awesome, but at a cost I'm sure. I don't think I will be ordering enough panels to justify having them custom one for me.

[Exodus Please]

Hey Lams, did you have any joy finding your notes on the various names for the deep impact panel? It says the one on the link I posted is a 2012 upgrade or that just for show?

Exodus Please

[lamsbread]

Hey exodus

other names are "Deep Impact" , "Grow Master 140" ,"Raptor 120" , "Beefly" & "helios"

wavelengths 440nm : 460nm : 470nm : 630nm : 640nm : 660nm @ a Ratio of 2:1:2:7:2:6

Power draw 120W

H-4 lens (secondary lens for deep penetration) light spread from 60^o to 90^o

Peace

Lams

[Exodus Please]

Thanks Lams. Much appreciated pal. I will let you know when I make a purchase.