Is 430watts enough?

[liljohnbigslick]

I have 400w metal halide in my veg and a 430w HPS in my bloom.My veg room is 6x6x8 and my bloom is 6x7x8. Do I need to add wattage in either to improve yield? Can I use flourescents?

[Guest superbluehaze]

Yeild and rate of growth are directly related to how much light the plants recieve.

What do you expect to produce in yield from your space?

The amount of product that you expect to get from your space determines, how much and what lighting you use.

If you give us some idea of what your expectations are, then we can advise you further;

As a rule of thumb, when the plant is flowering, it needs at least 40 watts per square foot;

so that a 400 watt HPS is just enough light to cover 1 square meter(as their are roughly 10 square feet to one meter).

That, however, is a bare minimum, and it is better to have 600 watts per square meter.

I hope this helps.

happy growing,

john

[liljohnbigslick]

Thanks for the advice. I have the option to obtain two metal halide 600w systems. Should I run both 430w HPS and 600w MH in my bloom. At this point I am harvesting 12 to 14 grams per plant. Can I expect more than this?

[Jay Ryan]

Don't run the MHs in your bloom room. You'll get more leaf, less bud.

As for yeild, that seems low.

[liljohnbigslick]

I just discovered I have a Mg defficiency would this lower my yeild consistently?

How reputable is Dr. Greenthumb Seeds, Canada? Who would you recommend?

[WhiteRhino]

hehe asking which seeds people would recommend in a GHSC site? pretty obvious what the answer will be

[liljohnbigslick]

I forgot to mention they won't ship to the U.S.

[WhiteRhino]

well ur not the only one in here from us and other seem to be able to get them ... so i dont think its a very big problem to get them in the us ...

[liljohnbigslick]

sorry my friend seems to think he can't

[Guest superbluehaze]

With around 1000 watts of HID lighting, all things being equal, you can expect to yield around 400 to 500 grams of dried bud..

All things being equal

This a rule of thumb, some growers manage to gain higher yeilds than this;

Most certainly use the halide and High pressure sodium together. This gives a much better spectrum of light.

For flowering, the ideal is to have two halides to one high pressure sodium.

The plants still need lots of blue light for photosynthesis and energy to ripen the buds. The higher blue light also helps with resin production.

The more light you give the plants, as long as they are healthy, the higher your yield will be.

To mix halide with High pressure Sodium lights is the way to go, as the spectrum is better for the plants.

During flowering, I used a 660w watt high pressure sodium, with a 600 watt halide and a 400 watt son-T agro high presure sodium light, with excellent results.

Check out my indoor grow in the grow section.

Many growers use compact fluros for side lighting, and this increases their yield by giving more light to the lower buds.

The more light, the better.

happy growing,

john

[Guest superbluehaze]

here is a company that is friends with Franco and Greenhouse, and they sell seeds from all the well known seed companies:

http://www.cannabis-seeds-bank.co.uk/

happy growing,

john

[liljohnbigslick]

Thanks that makes me feel a little better about spending more on my investment. At this point, {I've harvested four times} I'm not even harvesting enough to last the 60-70 days it takes for the next harvest.

Thanks for the input,

John

[Anatolian]

double specturm cfl can be good for vegetating and flowering stages. i

[Guest superbluehaze]

hi littlejohn,

Firstly, we need some pictures if we are to help you increase your yield.

How many plants do you grow?

What size pots do you use?

Are you using soil or a soil less mix?

How of often do you water them?

Magnesium deficiency????

How do you know it is a magnesium deficiency?

Many growers over water their plants, and this can lead to mineral deficiencies, very slow growth and root disease.

If the roots do not have enough oxygen, the plant can not be healthy.

Only a healthy and vigorous plant can yield as it should.

I hope this helps,

happy growing,

john

[liljohnbigslick]

Well I'm working on the pictures. As for the specifics I have an average of nine to twelve four foot plants in my bloom and five mothers and thirty clones in my veg. I use 1/2 gal pots up to 8 to 12 inches then 3.5 to 5 gal after, depending on root developement. I use BD pro-mix soil less. I add perlite for aeration. I made a determination on my Mg deficiency after looking at a number of deficiency tables and testing my soil with a base nutrient test. I have a drip system in both rooms that waters once a week, and when the soil starts pulling away from the pot, combined with dry soil 1/2 to 1 inch from the top, I water extra.

thanks

Johnny

[Guest superbluehaze]

Thanks;

You grow 9 to 12 plants that are 4 foot tall at maturity, in your flower room.

You have another room with 5 mother plants and 30 clones in it.

If you are using a 430 watt light in your flower room, that is why your yield is not very high.

Only the top of the plants would be getting intense light.

Every time you double the distance between plant and light intensity goes down by 75%.

I think 4 foot plants are too high for a 400 watt light;

the bottom buds would receive very little intense light, and would be small and underdeveloped.

I hope this helps my friend,

john

[johnnybbad]

had to change usernames til admin gets back with me. I noticed the difference in height, my first two cycles I started blooming at 24inches and I didn't get a large yield so I asked around and the concensus was I needed height so I thought I'd give it a try. I added a 400w MH in my bloom because I won't get my 600 until nov. Should this help? A fellow grower told me that two 400w lights won't add up in comparison to a 600w is there any truth to this?

Johnny

[Guest superbluehaze]

I will try to help mate;

It is said "All roads lead to Rome"; in growing there is no one right way, or wrong way.

Each grower has to find what works best for them.

This is how I would approach your situation, but once again nothing is set in concrete.

I used these techniques in my last grow, but in my next one I may not, or I may modify them to suit the way the plant wants to grow.

Watch your plants.

See the way they want to grow, but sculpture them as you imagine what you want them to look like at harvest time.

Under lights the ideal plant is a squat, widely branched plant.

When it flowers, it may only be 2 feet tall, but cover an area of over 4 foot square (see my post in the grow section for an example of such a plant).

This one plant will look like over a hundred plant lets, as all the lateral branches have grown vertically and have formed a large bud.

The lights we use are powerful and a wonder of modern technology, but they are no where near a match for the sun.

A 400 watt HPS has only enough intensity to for the light to penetrate the canopy to a depth of around 15 inches.

Any branches below that will not receive enough intense light to form well developed buds.

Every time you double the distance of the light from the top of your plants, the intensity of the light is reduce to one quarter of what it was before it was raised.

Therefore, the ideal plants is one that has been encouraged to go outwards rather than upwards,

so that at harvest time the plant is 4 cubic feet of thick, fat sparkly buds.

I used 600 watt lights; a 600 watt bulb will not put out as much light as 2 by 400 watt lamps( about 80% of what they would put out, I think), but because the light is coming from one source rather than 2,

it is far more intense.

The plants love intense light.

all the best,

happy growing,

john

[Guest superbluehaze]

Some more questions, my friend.

How old are your mother plants?

Were they grown from seed?

What is the stem thickness of your cuttings when you take them from the mother plant to root them?

How do you root your clones?

I think it is more likely that the base of your problem lays here.

How long as it been since you grew some plants from seed?

It is important, also, to grow the correct strain to suit your growing conditions.

once again,

happy growing,

john

[johnnybbad]

Thanks for the confirmation. I've been using the bending method(since joining this site) on both my indoor and outdoor crop and one run is ready for bloom this week.They do bush out quite a bit and I'm hoping for the best.

So as far as the 2x400w is concerned I'm not going to get light any deeper into the canopy than I would with just one. Will I see denser more resinous buds?

thanks

Johnny

[Guest superbluehaze]

Good luck with the bending method;

it does not always work (as it depends on the strain) but it can increase your yield enormously.

You most certainly will see more denser and well developed buds.

Where you should notice the difference, though, with the two lights, and extra wattage, is in your final yield;

Your final yeild should be a little more than double of what you would have expected, if you only used one light.

That is why I use 600 watt lights for: because the light is more intense, it does penetrate further into the canopy than a 400 watt light.

I do not , however, think this is your problem.

I think the problem of why you are getting a low yield has more to do with your mother plant and your clones.

So you did grow these palnts from seed, but still were not happy with the yeild?

happy growing, my friend,

john

[johnnybbad]

To answer your questions, my mothers are at different ages but most were planted the begining of june these are endless sky(from seed). I have three Great white shark mothers(clones) and two bubba kush(from seed). I just started cloning in june so my first run should be ready in a week or two (they're 18 to 20 inches high now)

I usually take clones when the branch is the size of a pencil lead and about three to four inches long. I have cocoa medium rooting blocks 1"x1"x2" and I use Clonex rooting solution. I normally take the clones and leave them alone(except for twice a day misting with B-52)for a week or two until roots start coming from the blocks.

Could you determine what strain would be right for me if I got some photos? Or is it a discovery type of thing?

Yes everything so far has been from seed I have a few that are a week or two from finish I'll get some pics so you can see what I'm working with.
thanks Johnny

[johnnybbad]

I see, that definitely made sense. I've harvested the first run and there's a definite improvement about 60-70 grams per plant. I can't wait to see what a 600mh and a 430w hps do.

I did grow most of the mothers from seed. I have three white shark clone mothers also.

[Guest superbluehaze]

I am pleased your yeild has impoved.

You have done well, and that seems to be very satisfactory.

of course we all look for ways to impove upon our last harvest.

Halide bulbs are not made in 600 watts; I have one but it is really a conversion bulb;

I would really encourage you to buy yourself a good digital ballast; I l use nothing else now, and are not that much more expensive than a magnetic ballast.

happy growing,

john

[liljohnbigslick]

Thank you I had no idea. I'm getting the mh from an old grower so it might be an outdated system. My 400w is a digital and I'm impressed with the output.I haven't really gotten to see what it does for the electric bill though. I appreciate the advice.