BHO (using the honeybee butane honey oil extractor) ...better with water hash.

[cosmicmindtrick]

Guys, I just read your discussion about BHO and wanna cry: NEVER USE IT, STOP USE IT!

Do you know what for processes happen in the tube, when butan starts to react with thc-substance? Do you know what for liquid flows from the whole of the tube?

Are you so pretty sure that all the butane evaporates in glass basin under warm water?

I think- no. The substance you get from butane extraction is really a grotty chemical product that has nothing with natural cannabis though!

I'm related to medicine/ chemie a little bit and trust me I know what I say. Some time ago we had a patient who used BHO about 5 years and got a malignant degeneration of lever from it (the products of butane decay were discovered in lever punction).

Yes, BHO is a hitter for experienced users, but the health is more valuable I suppose.

I wonder why such devices like bee honey extractors are still availible everywhere in Amsterdam.

Guys, I'd like only to warn you and it's your right to decide...

Use natural products, if u want a kicker - use water hash and you will be ok!

Edited May 6, 2013 by cosmicmindtrick

[cosmicmindtrick]

Sorry i know this is difficult to read! I will change my postin editing options in future.

Anyway i hope this helps someone. I mean whats the point of growing organic and then messing up your health with a BHO extraction???

[Dust]

well i'm against the use of BHO daily and on a regular basis, like people msoking ONLY BHO, but now smoking 1 dab once every 3 week.. well for real i doubt it hurts a lot probably less than daily smoking joints ith cigarettes, but yes on big BHO smokers i agree we don't now enough what's hapening and what's extracting yet.. water hash is great ^^ but i understand some people can't afford all the bags etc, it always hurts more than a 20 30e tube

Have a good day thanks for sharing your opinion

[gonzosghost]

Guys, I just read your discussion about BHO and wanna cry: NEVER USE IT, STOP USE IT!

Do you know what for processes happen in the tube, when butan starts to react with thc-substance? Do you know what for liquid flows from the whole of the tube?

Are you so pretty sure that all the butane evaporates in glass basin under warm water?

I think- no. The substance you get from butane extraction is really a grotty chemical product that has nothing with natural cannabis though!

I'm related to medicine/ chemie a little bit and trust me I know what I say. Some time ago we had a patient who used BHO about 5 years and got a malignant degeneration of lever from it (the products of butane decay were discovered in lever punction).

Yes, BHO is a hitter for experienced users, but the health is more valuable I suppose.

I wonder why such devices like bee honey extractors are still availible everywhere in Amsterdam.

Guys, I'd like only to warn you and it's your right to decide...

Use natural products, if u want a kicker - use water hash and you will be ok!

well i'm against the use of BHO daily and on a regular basis, like people msoking ONLY BHO, but now smoking 1 dab once every 3 week.. well for real i doubt it hurts a lot probably less than daily smoking joints ith cigarettes, but yes on big BHO smokers i agree we don't now enough what's hapening and what's extracting yet.. water hash is great ^^ but i understand some people can't afford all the bags etc, it always hurts more than a 20 30e tube

Have a good day thanks for sharing your opinion

I have just invested in a 4L Degassing chamber due to these very concerns pump etc will follow. Did a BHO run a few months ago and I believe that heat purging does not fully relieve it of the tane The full setup is roughly €300-€350. 8hr full purges are on the cards I use only the best butane with no contaminants I am a firm believer in extractions and as an avid 'extractionist' I feel I need this equipment for my conquests

As far as heat purging goes, I agree with you guys

[Dust]

yes i didn't mention it, but i also believe some setups can still produce some very decent and clean products i think, but it is such a low ratio of the production ^^

But further than the concern of health when i talk about smoking daily, it's also on the fact that i find it much too strong to smoke only this, using only BHO i think is just too much even with the cleanest you can get. but it's just personal point of view ^^

Hope we will see that degas room in aaction in pictures man should be promising

[gonzosghost]

yes i didn't mention it, but i also believe some setups can still produce some very decent and clean products i think, but it is such a low ratio of the production ^^

But further than the concern of health when i talk about smoking daily, it's also on the fact that i find it much too strong to smoke only this, using only BHO i think is just too much even with the cleanest you can get. but it's just personal point of view ^^

Hope we will see that degas room in aaction in pictures man should be promising

Will do my friend

I agree with excessive usage and health concerns. It is rather strong thing to be rockin daily I love my weed too much to be raising my tolerance levels through the roof. If I go back to the weed and it's not as potent due to excessive usage of highly potent, it's horrible, lol

[cosmicmindtrick]

I am very aware of the un-evaporated butane in the BHO, it seems to me that only a percentage of the overall gases

is spent and the remainder stays lockd firmly within your end product. I dont know the conversion but it really does warrant

some more studies on this topic (especially for long term users of BHO).

Just my two pence worth.

(i myself like BHO but will not make any or smoke of it until i know what the impurities are that remain within the oil).

[r4nd0m]

I feel the same way and hold similar opinions to the Original Poster.

Budder made using alcohol. No purging required. All you have to do is evaporate the alcohol and the water content. Perfectly safe to consume and make. It's crubmly and yellow because there is absolutely almost ZERO % plant wax or chlorophyll. It is extremely potent, safe to consume, tastes and smells exactly like the original strain from which it was made.

I mostly use my Vaporizer. I almost never combusted any Cannabis in 2 years. I use oil in my portable Eclipse Vaporizer. I use this oil on top of freshly baked cookies and brownies and the heat activates the cannabis and melts into the food. Safest way to consume.

I will also agree with OP. Here is the data for the most popular Butane brand in the USA, claimed to be filtered 5x. Just note the actual contents of this Butane (and almost every other brand, unless you have a license and a supplier of industrial grade Tetrane):

Not only is unsafe and potentially VERY dangerous to make, it is also unsafe to consume because butane gets trapped within the final product between cannabinoid chains due to the way the those particular hydrocarbons are structured and even heat + vacuum purge will not fully clean the product.

Alcohol on the other hand contains only water. Evaporate the alcohol and the water and you have NOTHING left in your final product. It is extremely safe to consume. Cannabis oil made in this manner is the most potent and best cure-all medicine for almost any human ailment (Consider our Endo-cannabinoid system that has been evolving for over 700 million years, and Cannabis comes around 60 millions years ago and complements our biochemistry). It is the only substance known to man so far that is literally a cure all for almost any human physical or psychological ailment. No one has ever died from consuming it. And this is why you want to consume this wonderful plant in the most safest and purest form.

BHO is NOT SAFE or PURE or CLEAN. It is nothing more than the current trend among stoners who have never given chemistry a second thought past 8th grade. No offense meant to anyone. Ever. I am merely only concerned for your safety.

Props to the OP. I admire your courage for standing up to the rest of the stoner community and letting them know that there are people like you and me who actually care. Thank you very much for your post and I wish you the best of everything in life.

Smoke For Peace.

[cosmicmindtrick]

My respects random, really nice post too.

there are a lot of people out there who would gladly jump up and down shaking their stick at my views on this,

so im very glad to see that you share my point of view on the matter.

Thanks. Namaste

[r4nd0m]

Because butane is non polar and considered insoluble in water, it is the longest chain alkane that is still slightly water soluble at 0.0325 vol/vol (3.25%). That means that a liter of n-butane will actually hold as much as 32.5 ml or mgs of water (1000ml X 0.0325).

3.25% by volume is also enough water to bring along some water solubles like chlorophyll and other plant waxes. When using non polar solvents like butane and hexane, some non-polar waxes, fats, and lipids are extracted as well. So your extraction still isn't clean. One of the process limitations, is that though non polar, n-butane has slight water solubility. At 20C/68F, it is only 0.0325 percent by vol/vol, but not zero and is still enough to pickup undesirable water solubles. 1 liter, or 1000 ml X 0.0325 = 32.5 ml of water. I haven't even bothered to look up iso-butane and propane yet.

The way the alkane hydrocarbon is shaped at the tail end, it is slightly polar and attaches to other molecules. n-Butane (normal butane) is a simple alkane, with four carbon atoms linked together in a row, with the remaining possible carbon bonding sites taken up by hydrogen atoms. The simplest is Methane, which is only on carbon and four hydrogen atoms, followed by Ethane with two carbons, Propane with three, and Butane with the four.

Butane Preparation: After removal from the oil, the gases are typically de-sulfurized using steam and a catalytic reactive bed, and fractionally distilled into the four basic gases. As fractional distilling separates the gasses by specific gravity, the principal contaminants in n-Butane at that point, will be Iso-Butane, a branched molecule isomer of n-Butane, as well as n-Propane, and Cyclo-Propane, plus low levels of heavier, longer oleaginous alkane wax chains. Again, please consult above for the MSDS of Vector and countless other canned Butane brands which contains high percentages of these contaminants.

Toxicity data

Butane LC50 Inhalation Vapor

Rat 658000 mg/m3 4 hours

Product/ingredient name Result Species Dose Exposure

Products of degradation: carbon oxides (CO, CO2) and water.

CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Classified 1 (Proven for humans.) by IARC, 1 (Known to

be human carcinogens.) by NTP, + (Proven.) by NIOSH, 1 (Proven for humans.) by

European Union. Classified A2 (Suspected for humans.) by ACGIH.

MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Classified 2 by European Union.

May cause damage to the following organs: the reproductive system, mucous membranes, upper respiratory tract, skin, eyes, central nervous system (CNS).

n-Butane may also be further refined to increase its purity, or to make it suitable for use in butane lighters. R-600 Refrigerant and Instrument grade n-Butane are examples of higher purity n-Butane suitable for extractions, and are distributed by suppliers like Matheson and Airgas. Anything else you can buy in stores is unclean and dangerous.

Besides the cannabinoids, which are Di-Terpene alcohols and di-alcohols (diol), there are also other terpenes in cannabis essential oils, which add to its smell, flavor, and medicinal entourage effect. Some of these terpenes are highly aromatic alcohols, phenols, ketones, aldehydes, ethers, and esters, which are aromatic because they freely give off molecules at even ambient temperatures.

Heating purging the oil to decarboxylation temperatures OR vacuum purging will evaporate off most of these smaller aromatic Mono-Terpene and Sesqui-Terpene molecules, before the larger and heavier cannabis Di-Terpenes are affected. Gone also are the medicinal and entourage effects from those terpenes.

Any chemists feel free to confirm and/or disconfirm as I found a lot of this in books as well as online and by talking to people in various #chemistry channels online. I would highly discourage the use of Butane as a solvent unless you are a chemist, know how it's done, and have access to industry grade extraction equipment and solvent.

[nicc1976]

I have just got a honey bee extractor because the last time I had oil you could still purchase red&gold seal all the time if I do this only on occasions like Christmas new year & birthday so 3 to 4 times a year I should be ok right