iStoned

LED grow light brands, good or bad

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The trouble with LED as I seek great lights is the huge variation of Chinese and American brands. The reviews I do find is few and the information the companies give about the lights  is often limited or not to be trusted completely. So what I wish is to depend on the growers experiences. How many grams/watt do you get from your light? and if you've tried other lights, how is the LED and the brand compared to what you used previous?

 

Which lights should be recommended to the raising numbers of growers around the world?

Which lights should not be recommended??

Here's a list of lights I was recommended to use. If anyone tried them please tell if it was any good :)

http://californialightworks.com/
http://www.advancedledlights.com/
http://www.357magled.com/
http://www.hydrogrowled.com/EXTREME-LED-Grow-Lights-C60.aspx

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I've been in the electrical lighting business for 32 years and have been a indoor container gardener since I was old enough to say " momma, plant grows"

After researching this all for awhile

https://www.blackdogled.com/products/universal-series.html

looks to have the superior product line out there right now and the best warrantee.

a cost benefit analysis is provided at their site as well as some supporting videos..

The idea of have a single cool (20-40 C) running luminare utilizing 750 va and producing 1500w light equivalent vegging nearly 50 sq ft is pretty convincing argument to me though.

here is some tape on HID vs LED  hopefully It wont fire automatically in your browser

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Few good reviews:

http://www.growweedeasy.com/led-upgrade-guide

Personally I use Vipar I am happy with it. 

 

I've heard good things about Growblu, Budmaster II and Mars II lights. Basically most of big forums have LED light grow diaries just check few results and choose one that you like. Also you got yt growers showing various lights in actions. One forum is even gathering data of g/W for various LEDs but I wouldn't say it is most important factor and best to use for judgment. 

 

Reality is that most of LEDs are better then HPS right now and more cost efficient so expect anything between 0.7-1.2 g /W (vegging time, room size and strain choice can impact that strongly) 

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Im contemplating a trip out to blackdog LED shop in the coming months . when I do get there I will give Ya'll a full run down.

 

Once I sober up that is !!

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cost efficiency is way off the scale much better for the hps lamp, you are talking about 1000$+ units in comparison to 600w hps, the par tests are clearly showing you still need same amount of true watts for the same results with horticulture hps like the videos shows too(not cheap street lamp) so there is no electricity saving either to get same yield, the big difference is on heat radiation and if you need to use ac

 

if you can drop AC from grow with leds than the advantage is clear but in cold climates you dont need ac so there is really no point buying the leds yet with so marginal differences. we are talking about just couple  %  difference

 

 

this gram per watt  really doesnt mean anything at all it doesnt tell you the most important factors Time or space, absolutely zero, like farting in wind, nada, it is really pointless way to talk about harvest as the equation has zero mathematics in it.  we need to have time, space and power combined in one calculation if people want to compare something

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You might want to look at the study ON blackdog's website (they didnt include Cooling costs either)

https://www.blackdogled.com/led-vs-hid-cost-comparison

replacement lamps and ballasts are expensive too. Mogul based lamps are much more fragile and have to be handled properly and disposed of (because of the mercury in them)

 

with the LED system you have very little or none of that

 

effective light to KVA is like 2:1

 

 "Because power isn't wasted heating a filament or causing a gas to fluoresce, the light output per watt of energy consumed is huge compared to other light sources. Besides much more light per watt, LEDs last a lot longer than tungsten bulbs or gas-filled tubes, making them very cost effective over time. Because they produce very little heat, you save on ventilation and cooling expenses,."

 

. 2500BTU for a 300 LED luminair vs 5115 - 6000  for a comparable HID and thats not counting ballast heat.

 

top of the line 300 LED Luminare will produce light eqv to 1500 w at the use of 750Va so you would have a 2557 btu signature rather than a 5115 btu signature not including ballast heat. We know that the hotter things are the more energy they consume and the more energy they consume the hotter they get (snow ball effect). it isnt that far a jump to say HIDs easily produce more than twice the heat signature. since the Heat signature of LED is going to be very low you need to fret  prying T.I. cameras much less.

 

Now when you consider gross use and peak time electrical rates , evaporation, the effect s of losing your cooling system even for a short time ... well your getting the picture

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cost efficiency is way off the scale much better for the hps lamp, you are talking about 1000$+ units in comparison to 600w hps, the par tests are clearly showing you still need same amount of true watts for the same results with horticulture hps like the videos shows too(not cheap street lamp) so there is no electricity saving either to get same yield, the big difference is on heat radiation and if you need to use ac

 

if you can drop AC from grow with leds than the advantage is clear but in cold climates you dont need ac so there is really no point buying the leds yet with so marginal differences. we are talking about just couple  %  difference

 

 

this gram per watt  really doesnt mean anything at all it doesnt tell you the most important factors Time or space, absolutely zero, like farting in wind, nada, it is really pointless way to talk about harvest as the equation has zero mathematics in it.  we need to have time, space and power combined in one calculation if people want to compare something

Sorry but all that you wrote is incorrect. 

 

Even if we do W to W comparison and we assume LED will take same amount of W from wall (and it won't 100x 3 W LED diod will take less then 300W from wall while 250W HPS will take 250W and turn plenty into heat) LED will simply produce more then HPS (most of leds lets say there is always Chinese rubbish, although even there seems to be massive improvement in last few years). So if W to W they produce more (check youtube enough to write LED vs HPS grow and u got 100s of diaries btoh in yt and forums from clones, side by side) cost efficiency myth which you present here is destroyed. 

Another thing is price you mention. Incorrect again. 8 years life cycle of LED 1 year of HPS (and ballast cost on top of that). Again with current prices LEDs are long time cheaper option with higher initial cost. 

In colder climates you still need air movement to control temperature, smaller exhaust fan, less W there and less of the bill. Simple. My 6 inch fan runs on 30-40%, up to 60% in late flowering (to control RH better not temeprature). I was able to get it to 20% without serious temperature rise it wasn't even possible with CFL! Not to mention HPS. 

We can discuss GPW disadvantages whole day long. Give me one better general benchmark that is available to everyday growers and I will be happy to use it. So far despite all the disadvantages it is best we get without specialistic equipment. And if you check with specialistic equipment which shows you spectrum that plant can actually use you will notice that HPS is no competition to LED. 

There is a reason why most of youtube growers moved away from HPS to LED, stop copying myths spread by HPS companies and old school guys who can't accept progress and do research. 

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blackdog is comparing to high cost  hps products with bs efficiency and costs, they are making it look like you need to buy air cooled hood AND ac, not very realistic is it:D

it looks totally ridiculou and doesnt reflect the cost at all but exactly what you can expect from the maker and seller of the led, and perfect climate on there led comparions hmm no need for ac:D but hps had to use aircooling and ac...right. why is that, not lying are they?, not very realistic comparisons. 

you dont change quality bulbs even after year let alone 6months if you got quality.... 6months 12/12 run is like burn in period for quality hps lol

 

i would like to see comparison in climate that doesnt reguire AC for either light.

 

watts are watts leyus you compare what it pulls from wall and only that nothing else if you want to know how much energy it uses. there are no 200w lights giving off 300w light like you said in chat lol, when comparing power usage  there is no 300W led that pulls less than 250W that is moronic it either pulls the 300w or its not 300w led...  like there is no 600W led that has 1000w of light, light is not measured by watts... with plants we use PAR=photo active radiation or the lumens when calculating what human eye sees not watts

when you see led has 100x5w diodes it does not automatically mean they run at full 5w power thus it doesnt automatically mean it is 500w light

 

you havent given single result or test to me yet except the video on top that proves my point, the stuff sellers made or said doesnt count here, including black dog led. cmon its the one selling the leds. look at the par results made by independent people

 

im looking at PAR results with equal Watts from wall or par per watt, comparing the price/performance ratio by pure math after that and they are not even close to each other yet prove me wrong here....    you post me any par test that shows there is huge difference and i will say im wrong, dont get me wrong i want them to be better and to develop but when people get hanged by the bs they will never get better

huge price difference  if you want 600w of leds instead of 600w hps light with horticulture bulb, and new bulb is like 25-35bucks

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also led longetivity hours are very very misleading atm and there are tests that show manufacturers are lying about it aswell. they dont tell you how much it degrades properly after 5000h 10000h 20000h, some might say it lasts 50000h total but they dont tell you how much power loss there is after any given time period

 

for example one test  with white leds rated at 100k hours with 75% load lost 13% of original efficiency after 15k hours    so after 3,5~ years of 12/12 usage it has lost 13% of efficiency so the 100k claim was totally misleading, like most claims are

 

again im not saying they are bad, but they are not magic either and i wouldnt recommend the high cost just yet, unless the climate requires lots of cooling, im not saying they dont have a place in growing but it is huge cost for not much benefit with quality led fixture, even if you DIY. the components are just so expensive, if the light you see in shop is cheap it wont have the quality components

i dont care what the maker says with out real par tests

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You say you expect exact maths calculations but you don't deliver them for your claims. 

 

There is a reason why most of medical growers switched to LED from HPS and because you refuse to accept facts it doesn't change facts and those are simple:

1. Better performance (yield, density, internodes length, basically every aspect).

2. Less electricity cost.

3. Spectrum used better by plants.

4. Multiple grow diaries/comparisons proofing great results LED vs HPS.

5.  Less heat.

6. Better price (higher initial cost, but less W with same results, less heat, less cooling cost, longer use without replacing, this goes even with good HPS with ballast and rest comparing to how often u change them and in long therm better)

You can argue about details like: why are there 80x5W diods in this model:

http://www.youtube.com/user/EastCoastChameleon

but power taken is: Draw Power:170~200W

Or basically this is the case for any other model. 

For those interested in facts and results I can recommend following yt channels which show use of LED lights from various manufacturers ranging from extra expensive to extra cheap:

https://www.youtube.com/user/medgrower1

https://www.youtube.com/user/EastCoastChameleon

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7seso9R8g3vUM9jD0vC9RA

(And there is hundreds more)

Most of them started with HPS so it's not perfect test but you can see results and why they moved away from HPS.

It is also not that hard to google LED vs HPS yield/comparison/etc. and find tons of tests not only done by companies like those: 

And there is even more diaries with LEDs (including mine) giving good results. You can judge for yourself. 

We can of course argue whole day about PAR, maths, cost, light spectrum used in photosynthesis, Watts etc. Reality is HPS conservative heads are still there but facts meet them and grow diaries and videos proofing them wrong. LEDs produce, produce equally good and often better, cost you less in long run due to less W for same results, better spectrum, and less dealing with heat needed. Initially cost is still higher but it if you are on budget and prefer inferior HPS to brand new LED it is your call, maybe you should think about budget in long run. 

600W LEDs (I'm talking how much pulling from wall to clarify) destroy 1000W HPS in terms of yield. There is nothing more to add here except for life expectancy 8 years where HPS life is 1 year (not too mention cost of ballast) . 

If anyone from new generation growers still fallowing advice on getting HPS instead of LEDs there is annual HPS lovers meeting, average age is 85 and it takes place in one of the biggest in country care homes, everyone is invited :D 

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@ jankahar ,

Black dog straight up says no AC costs are considered in the paper.

granted the costs might have changed but that just changes the off set it doesnt eliminate it.

plus w/ hid you must change the lamps or you lose throughput so your g/w will have a way higher variability

to lower the variability and keep g/w maximized you must change the lamps every cycle.

you dont think the HID LED g/w touts run their study on old lamps do you?

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im not gona get involved in the whole mumbo jumbo , for me Led is good but it isnt very good at light breaking  the canopy and 1 led light doesnt cover as much plants as a hps would just for the fact the reflectors and shape of leds are just too far behind in design.... hps u can get and unlimited supply for reflectors to help boost ur canopy coverage , with leds ur pretty much stuck to where ur light can reach.....

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You say you expect exact maths calculations but you don't deliver them for your claims. 

 

There is a reason why most of medical growers switched to LED from HPS and because you refuse to accept facts it doesn't change facts and those are simple:

1. Better performance (yield, density, internodes length, basically every aspect).

2. Less electricity cost.

3. Spectrum used better by plants.

4. Multiple grow diaries/comparisons proofing great results LED vs HPS.

5.  Less heat.

6. Better price (higher initial cost, but less W with same results, less heat, less cooling cost, longer use without replacing, this goes even with good HPS with ballast and rest comparing to how often u change them and in long therm better)

You can argue about details like: why are there 80x5W diods in this model:

http://www.youtube.com/user/EastCoastChameleon

but power taken is: Draw Power:170~200W

Or basically this is the case for any other model. 

For those interested in facts and results I can recommend following yt channels which show use of LED lights from various manufacturers ranging from extra expensive to extra cheap:

https://www.youtube.com/user/medgrower1

https://www.youtube.com/user/EastCoastChameleon

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7seso9R8g3vUM9jD0vC9RA

(And there is hundreds more)

Most of them started with HPS so it's not perfect test but you can see results and why they moved away from HPS.

It is also not that hard to google LED vs HPS yield/comparison/etc. and find tons of tests not only done by companies like those: 

And there is even more diaries with LEDs (including mine) giving good results. You can judge for yourself. 

We can of course argue whole day about PAR, maths, cost, light spectrum used in photosynthesis, Watts etc. Reality is HPS conservative heads are still there but facts meet them and grow diaries and videos proofing them wrong. LEDs produce, produce equally good and often better, cost you less in long run due to less W for same results, better spectrum, and less dealing with heat needed. Initially cost is still higher but it if you are on budget and prefer inferior HPS to brand new LED it is your call, maybe you should think about budget in long run. 

600W LEDs (I'm talking how much pulling from wall to clarify) destroy 1000W HPS in terms of yield. There is nothing more to add here except for life expectancy 8 years where HPS life is 1 year (not too mention cost of ballast) . 

If anyone from new generation growers still fallowing advice on getting HPS instead of LEDs there is annual HPS lovers meeting, average age is 85 and it takes place in one of the biggest in country care homes, everyone is invited :D

 

 

im must admit that second led grow looks amazing and seems to be clearly better(first one didnt have any result?) and the test seems to be pretty fairly done aswell as the guy has proper measuring equipment and lab results aswell  but but  the unit costs $2,499.99 :O why would i ever risk so much money when i dont even know long it will last?  seriously that is big investment, i could buy over 16000 kilowatt hours of electricity with that units price, and 600w hps takes less than 2800kwh year or 1000w takes about 4400kwh per year when running 12/12. you see my point here.

 

how long will it last and how fast will they degrade when using it is still a valid question i think         life expectancy 8 years is exactly from the manufacturers mouth doh:). and are we supposed to trust them with the investment?, did you miss the white led example here?

no way its 50k hours at 100%

http://www.nickhill.co.uk/white_LED_life_expectancy.html

leds-lit.jpg

 

 

with my climate with zero need for cooling most of the year how much will it really save after it has been used and burned out? the quality cost honey as we can see and durability is still a  question

i can see it is excellent for many many applications but maybe not for poor small time grower...  there is risk to loose all the equipment as well for many people that grow here and it should be considered as well before investing big bucks

 

do you know cheapest led that would really replace the 600w in my 1.2x1.2 tent, fill that same footprint and outperform it like that 2500$ light? and how fast would that really pay itself back considering there is no need for cooling.

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im must admit that second led grow looks amazing and seems to be clearly better(first one didnt have any result?) and the test seems to be pretty fairly done aswell as the guy has proper measuring equipment and lab results aswell  but but  the unit costs $2,499.99 :O why would i ever risk so much money when i dont even know long it will last?  seriously that is big investment, i could buy over 16000 kilowatt hours of electricity with that units price, and 600w hps takes less than 2800kwh year or 1000w takes about 4400kwh per year when running 12/12. you see my point here.

 

how long will it last and how fast will they degrade when using it is still a valid question i think         life expectancy 8 years is exactly from the manufacturers mouth doh:). and are we supposed to trust them with the investment?, did you miss the white led example here?

no way its 50k hours at 100%

http://www.nickhill.co.uk/white_LED_life_expectancy.html

leds-lit.jpg

 

 

with my climate with zero need for cooling most of the year how much will it really save after it has been used and burned out? the quality cost honey as we can see and durability is still a  question

i can see it is excellent for many many applications but maybe not for poor small time grower...  there is risk to loose all the equipment as well for many people that grow here and it should be considered as well before investing big bucks

 

do you know cheapest led that would really replace the 600w in my 1.2x1.2 tent, fill that same footprint and outperform it like that 2500$ light? and how fast would that really pay itself back considering there is no need for cooling.

Many questions but not many that will actually target what is important for growers. 

As for efficiency loss it is well known, and well researched:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_lamp

Same for life of LED no one needs to relay on producers to count on info. It's not a new technology as you are trying too suggest, it is old and well tested technology that is now being adapted to growing weed, at the beginning there were mistakes and weaker models this is past now. 

There is a risk of losing equipment so you can stick to autos in soil on window sill no problem mate :D Some of us wants best they can get. Also if you are so worried check for fire risk with HPS, you are worried about pigs confiscating it but you are not worried it will burn your house down? I am more worried about everything else being destroyed in fire but hey that's just me. My LED saved me so much money on weed that it's price was covered already multiple times in savings. 

You don't need cooling in your place? I still need exhaust fan out in my growroom you don't with HPS? I don't believe you! I mean I live in what is considered cold climate but still I grow just in winter, and my flat is 21C because I heat here. That with LED and 30% 6 inch fan gives me 26C in my wardrobe and in seedling phase I got 30C with 300W CFL! I need to run 50% of 760m3/h to get it decent then. With HPS easily 80-90% I guess. Difference between needing 6 inch fan to move air and 4 inch running on % power is big is it?  Most of people who live in cold climate like to heat their flat but if your only heating in cave is your grow tent then I guess you should stick to HPS nothing else turns so much electricity into heat :D We don't want you to die from cold :D 

There is tons of cheap leds tested with diaries/yt videos etc. including ones I have linked to (Colorados finest on yt use cheap, my vipar was fairly cheap). There is tons of reviews of cheap leds like in first link I gave in my first post in this thread. And on the same website there is diary with 9.3 oz from 250W LED:

http://www.growweedeasy.com/pro-grow-led-grow-journal-endive

Enough is to do some research and google names of few cheap leds to know. All makes like Blackstar, vipar Mars II (and many more) Google that and you get 10s if not 100s of grows and you can see what room size it is used for and how it performs. All those models are cheap. Next thing we know and we will get climate change deniers like we have LED results deniers. 

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im not gona get involved in the whole mumbo jumbo , for me Led is good but it isnt very good at light breaking  the canopy and 1 led light doesnt cover as much plants as a hps would just for the fact the reflectors and shape of leds are just too far behind in design.... hps u can get and unlimited supply for reflectors to help boost ur canopy coverage , with leds ur pretty much stuck to where ur light can reach.....

This isn't even remotely true. Not only you can keep LED further away due to better penetration which of course gives better coverage but also they come in variety of sizes and shapes so you an choose best one for your growroom. Again most of growers I linked used 1 hps , replaced it with 1 led and didn't change their growroom size one bit. I don't know why people come up with ideas like that. 

 

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Many questions but not many that will actually target what is important for growers. 

As for efficiency loss it is well known, and well researched:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_lamp

Same for life of LED no one needs to relay on producers to count on info. It's not a new technology as you are trying too suggest, it is old and well tested technology that is now being adapted to growing weed, at the beginning there were mistakes and weaker models this is past now. 

There is a risk of losing equipment so you can stick to autos in soil on window sill no problem mate :D Some of us wants best they can get. Also if you are so worried check for fire risk with HPS, you are worried about pigs confiscating it but you are not worried it will burn your house down? I am more worried about everything else being destroyed in fire but hey that's just me. My LED saved me so much money on weed that it's price was covered already multiple times in savings. 

You don't need cooling in your place? I still need exhaust fan out in my growroom you don't with HPS? I don't believe you! I mean I live in what is considered cold climate but still I grow just in winter, and my flat is 21C because I heat here. That with LED and 30% 6 inch fan gives me 26C in my wardrobe and in seedling phase I got 30C with 300W CFL! I need to run 50% of 760m3/h to get it decent then. With HPS easily 80-90% I guess. Difference between needing 6 inch fan to move air and 4 inch running on % power is big is it?  Most of people who live in cold climate like to heat their flat but if your only heating in cave is your grow tent then I guess you should stick to HPS nothing else turns so much electricity into heat :D We don't want you to die from cold :D

There is tons of cheap leds tested with diaries/yt videos etc. including ones I have linked to (Colorados finest on yt use cheap, my vipar was fairly cheap). There is tons of reviews of cheap leds like in first link I gave in my first post in this thread. And on the same website there is diary with 9.3 oz from 250W LED:

http://www.growweedeasy.com/pro-grow-led-grow-journal-endive

Enough is to do some research and google names of few cheap leds to know. All makes like Blackstar, vipar Mars II (and many more) Google that and you get 10s if not 100s of grows and you can see what room size it is used for and how it performs. All those models are cheap. Next thing we know and we will get climate change deniers like we have LED results deniers. 

so its is not important how long the 2500$ light lasts for the end user?

im not questioning the time it lasts in laboratory setup and cooled chips, with unrealistic junction temperatures but real life, that is not going to be 8years

 

again you didnt show anything but told me to look for cheap led grows, ive seen many but they dont impress me like that 2500$ light sorry.

 

20101223155746_3848.jpg

 

look at the rating temp and compare to real world application temps, there are many things the marketing hype doesnt tell you when all they do is repeat lab rating test

 

and with the heat life curve drops aswell not just efficiency

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so its is not important how long the 2500$ light lasts for the end user?

im not questioning the time it lasts in laboratory setup and cooled chips, with unrealistic junction temperatures but real life, that is not going to be 8years

 

again you didnt show anything but told me to look for cheap led grows, ive seen many but they dont impress me like that 2500$ light sorry.

 

20101223155746_3848.jpg

 

look at the rating temp and compare to real world application temps, there are many things the marketing hype doesnt tell you when all they do is repeat lab rating test

 

and with the heat life curve drops aswell not just efficiency

Man we can discuss details like that for next 100 years. This is only thing we can achieve by discussing it any longer:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/internet-argument-resolved-2014030584268

HPS were massive progress from CFL. LEDs are progress from HPS (although not as massive, maybe plasma lights will be one day). Extremely expensive LEDs are probably not worth the cost unless you are cashcropper (although I've seen commercial grows which claimed they saved fortune on exhaust fans and electricity). Cheap and reasonably priced LEDs can be almost equally good enough is to do some research in grow diaries.

 

Even most expensive led will save you money considering price of weed on illegal market. $2500 light vs 656 g form one grow is 23 ounces. Even assuming jsut $250 per ounce (in my area it is more like $340 but maybe you live in some nicer place :D) gives you $5750. So for next grow you can buy 2 of those lights if you like them. And for next one 4. And you will still have leftover saved cash for electricity, nutes etc. Personally I got 300W Vipar (180W true power 100x3W diodes) and it yields enough in 1 grow a year for me to smoke  and cost now around $200. With first grow it covered not only cost of this light but whole setup multiple times. Going for more W will only increase how fast it pays for itself. That is really all growers need to know. The need to know that when you finish smoking your weed, savings were big enough to throw it to the bin if you want, which of course you don't have to do it for way longer then with HPS. 

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As for lifespan manufacturers claim 50000 hours, wikipedia 30 000 hours and you can guess which one I trust. Saying that you can always get faulty model that will last shorter then that, you can get the same with HPS that is why some people change them every 6 months. 

 

 Energy Star specifications require the bulbs to typically drop less than 10% after 6,000 or more hours of operation, and in the worst case not more than 15%

Again from Wikipedia. 

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a quality $2500 LED would blast photons out of a 1.2 x1.2 tent

 

BDled's top of the line platinum XL-u will veg 49'sq and flower 20.25'sq

 

you can pick one up at http://growershouse.com/lights/indoor-led-grow-lights?c2c_brand=7853 for $1664.05 on special w/ free shipping. (3rd anniversary sale 10% off everything) or $1630.85 for new grow club members or $1580.85 for existing ones.

but its good news bad news scenario... bad thing is it will only give you 1041.67 w/ft sq with your tent. good thing is it will just about fit . good thing is that will leave you $919.15 for some new pruning shears, dry rack and more storage containers... (because you will need them) or maybe even one of those cool vacuum trimmers :cool:

 

you can also view grow house's comparison study at the above link.

 

or here:

 

 

end of thread am I right? (or am I right?)

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This isn't even remotely true. Not only you can keep LED further away due to better penetration which of course gives better coverage but also they come in variety of sizes and shapes so you an choose best one for your growroom. Again most of growers I linked used 1 hps , replaced it with 1 led and didn't change their growroom size one bit. I don't know why people come up with ideas like that. 

 

hahaha ok broo , im talking from experience maybe u are talking from paper............ good luck with that

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a quality $2500 LED would blast photons out of a 1.2 x1.2 tent

 

BDled's top of the line platinum XL-u will veg 49'sq and flower 20.25'sq

 

you can pick one up at http://growershouse.com/lights/indoor-led-grow-lights?c2c_brand=7853 for $1664.05 on special w/ free shipping. (3rd anniversary sale 10% off everything) or $1630.85 for new grow club members or $1580.85 for existing ones.

but its good news bad news scenario... bad thing is it will only give you 1041.67 w/ft sq with your tent. good thing is it will just about fit . good thing is that will leave you $919.15 for some new pruning shears, dry rack and more storage containers... (because you will need them) or maybe even one of those cool vacuum trimmers :cool:

 

you can also view grow house's comparison study at the above link.

 

or here:

 

 

end of thread am I right? (or am I right?)

 

 

yeah, thats what im seeing all around, i would need that 595w draw LED to cover the 4x4 and it would def give much more growing power inside 4x4 than the 600w hps i have at the same energy use

or one of the 500w models from another brand should cover the 4x4 aswell but at 0.15kwh energy price there is not much savings

 

i calculated my 600w cost 414euros to run 12/12 whole year    i added 30w to the calculation so 630w

and 500w led light to cover the 4x4 area would cost  328euros for whole year

so i it would save me about 86 euros per whole year or a whopping 14euros from every bill

 

initial cost about 1300euros  saving in electricity 86€ per year   and possibly increase in yield

you are absolutely right that comparing to the street price here, even ounce more per 3month cycle would totally pay the led back in year, to me the yield doesnt correlate into money directly as it is going to my own use and family

 

hard to say how much more it would yield considering good 600w pretty much full fills most strains light needs in the 4x4 tent with with good reflector and decent canopy height it might even light bigger area for low need plants, there is big variability in the light needs

 

14e off bill every 2months

possibly better yield vs 600w in 4x4 if the light is top quality

maybe better product quality aswell if the light is top quality

if the led is as good as the best it will do all these things i agree but at very high cost

that video you posted shows big variables in the led lights so it is safe to assume they dont all give same results either in comparison to that 2400$ light... why would they

 

the 350w black dog  doesnt seem to be so good  par/watts  13  for black dog and kind 307W gives  22 par/watts  huge difference there    the 348w ceramic hps in the video gives   22 par/watts    if you looked at the results

 

if bd350 gives 13 par/watt i doubt  the bd700 is any more efficient in watts

 

that light is not comparable at all to the 2400$ unit we looked earlier that gave the huge yeilds and good lab results. not even close so cant expect same result either  

the grower in the 1000w hps video also made it very clear that it is far away from the other led lights he had seen in quality and power

 

quality cost alot,   btw that apache at600 in 600 vs 1000 video draws 742 Watts from the wall in other pages not 600w   so the results were not counted right in video as it used wrong wattage initially

 

it gives PAR/Watts of 31.27 vs the 13 PAR/Watts of black dog     tthis is pretty important thing you should know when buying light

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hahaha ok broo , im talking from experience maybe u are talking from paper............ good luck with that

Oh yeah u are only one on this forum that have experience rest just read about growing ;) VIPAR 300 I got is experimental model made of cardboard ;) I experience sun that hides at night so it goes around earth not as they say earth around sun.. they talking from paper. 

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Oh yeah u are only one on this forum that have experience rest just read about growing ;) VIPAR 300 I got is experimental model made of cardboard ;) I experience sun that hides at night so it goes around earth not as they say earth around sun.. they talking from paper. 

 

No mate but if ur gona sit here and say that what i  have seen with my eyes and  other led growers  have also seen and agree  is a problem with leds and u reply " isnt remotely true"

then why waste my breathe on deaf ears, ;)

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No mate but if ur gona sit here and say that what i  have seen with my eyes and  other led growers  have also seen and agree  is a problem with leds and u reply " isnt remotely true"

then why waste my breathe on deaf ears, ;)

Clearly you and your friends need glasses:

http://www.organicagardensupply.com/grow-lights/lumigrow-pro-led-grow-light-coverage/

For HPS it is 6.5ftx 6.5ft to compare. So at 7 inches from plants LED beats HPS in covered area. Just to add my LED stays 30 inches away for seedlings, 20 inches in vegetation 12 inches in flowering. Most of 5W chips stay 48 inches for seedlings, 30 inches vegetation, 20 inches flowering. Penetration is good enough to keep 30 inches whole grow long, ppl get them a bit closer to get more intensity in flowering. 

Of course they come in different sizes an shapes so cover area can vary but they usually cam even to HPS wiyth 3W chips and beat them easily with 5W. It is suprising that HPS die hards need damn diagrams to fallow simple logic: you hang light higher it covers more,a nd LED always is hanged higher then HPS, more penetration = more height = more coverage. That is simple logic ignoring even things like LED angles etc. But I guess it's hard to understand if you're blind easier when deaf. 

Maybe it is better to have deaf ear then blind eyes. Deaf ears prevent me from believing made up stories like yours. 

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Strain Hunters is a series of documentaries aimed at informing the general public about the quest for the preservation of the cannabis plant in the form of particularly vulnerable landraces originating in the poorest areas of the planet.

Cannabis, one of the most ancient plants known to man, used in every civilisation all over the world for medicinal and recreational purposes, is facing a very real threat of extinction. One day these plants could be helpful in developing better medications for the sick and the suffering. We feel it is our duty to preserve as many cannabis landraces in our genetic database, and by breeding them into other well-studied medicinal strains for the sole purpose of scientific research.

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