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Franke

Small buds - why ?

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Hey guys.

Growing some sour diesel and o.g presidential

I have 4 plants (big pots) in a tent

in my tent i have prober exhoust and intake of air.

I have 600 watts of hps light along with 2x 200 watts leds panels.

Temp is around 20 degrees celcius

I feed them with Hesi fertilizers

I am now pretty long into flowering but i still think the buds is kinda small ?

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post-35135-0-75982000-1409827725.jpg

post-35135-0-61801400-1409834031.jpg

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Looks like ur Plants got Topped multiple times and there were other Problems like Overnutrition and Lights to close to ur Plants ;) Thats probably what caused ur Buds not to blow like crazy but man what did u expect from those strains they are not Producer Strains if u want high Yields say Bye  to everyting that has OG or Kush in its name ^^

And for me this looks like a nice Yields if ur not a Dealer i cant imagine this isnt enuff foor 1 Person

Cheerz

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There can be number of reasons for example:

1. Does your LED not blocking light from HPS? 

2. Did you not overstress them?

3. Stems might be too fin so plant might not produce to avoid breaking stem (SCROG solves this problem, plant don't feel weight and produce like crazy).

4. Your leafs look curly and yellowish, not the best quality but looks like overfeeding. 

 

Most of the time the bigger pot and more light = more yield. In your case if LEDs are not blocking HPS you seem to have decent amount of light, and pot looks like decent size, so I think it might be lack of SCROG with intensive training/topping that limits your yields and overfeeding. But again there might be multiple reasons outside those 4 tat crossed my mind. 

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Dust, on 04 Sept 2014 - 6:32 PM, said:

Hello Franke, when you say 20º it is in the night or during the day?

 

 

Hey 20 is avg. I would say in "day time" its 20-22 and in "night time" its 18-19, I swapped so that it's opposite from real life time cycle to avoid big heat gap.

 

 

Vertox, on 05 Sept 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

Looks like ur Plants got Topped multiple times and there were other Problems like Overnutrition and Lights to close to ur Plants ;) Thats probably what caused ur Buds not to blow like crazy but man what did u expect from those strains they are not Producer Strains if u want high Yields say Bye  to everyting that has OG or Kush in its name ^^

And for me this looks like a nice Yields if ur not a Dealer i cant imagine this isnt enuff foor 1 Person

Cheerz

Hey, only two of the plants were topped once.  I believe i might have had some "wrong  ph due to wierd measurment tool" lol.  I have tried to  feed the plants with less then lables on the bottles from Hesi. Maybe still alittle bit too much..

Yea proberly not the biggest producers in genetic terms ;--

 

leyus, on 06 Sept 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

There can be number of reasons for example:

 

1. Does your LED not blocking light from HPS?

 

2. Did you not overstress them?

 

3. Stems might be too fin so plant might not produce to avoid breaking stem (SCROG solves this problem, plant don't feel weight and produce like crazy).

 

4. Your leafs look curly and yellowish, not the best quality but looks like overfeeding.

 

 

Most of the time the bigger pot and more light = more yield. In your case if LEDs are not blocking HPS you seem to have decent amount of light, and pot looks like decent size, so I think it might be lack of SCROG with intensive training/topping that limits your yields and overfeeding. But again there might be multiple reasons outside those 4 tat crossed my mind.

 

 

Hey, One of the leds were blocking alittle bit in the side kinda minor shadow. fixed that by now tho, thanks..

I have been training the plants with a big screen to create a flat canopy. But recently i removed the screen while the plants had been blooming for some thing. I actually suspected the screen of being the reason for low/slow production thought it was strangling the plant or something like that. but the idea about weight sounds more logic now..

 

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It doesnt it will rather get so haevy that it breaks then stay small not to break ;)

Well if u had Ph Problems u know the cause those are highend Genetics one misshap and the yield will be small..

Just make a run with ak47 and u will see that its not ur setup and more the genethics u chose, allways remember that there are Genetics which will not accept any slightest fault of the Grower :)

good luck

cheers

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Vertox, on 07 Sept 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

It doesnt it will rather get so haevy that it breaks then stay small not to break ;)

 

Well if u had Ph Problems u know the cause those are highend Genetics one misshap and the yield will be small..

 

Just make a run with ak47 and u will see that its not ur setup and more the genethics u chose, allways remember that there are Genetics which will not accept any slightest fault of the Grower :)

 

good luck

 

cheers

 

 

 

Hello my friend. I have allways been thinkin "ass long as its in about the right range of the prefered ph" its okay.  I will have to calibrate my ph thingy in some way now...

 

I didnt research directly into these strains before I started. more into general cannabis growing. this is my 3rd  grow.  Thats proberley why i havn't heard of high-end strains yet. But it does make sence.. Perfect conditions and food or outcome will not be primo. 

 

Should have found much more specific instructions for THESE strains befor i started. Will defentley keep that in mind for my next grow..

 

 

Thanks a lot  all of you for your anwsers. :_)

 

If anyone knows about some  instructions for specific genetics/strains it will be much appreciated :-) 

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I've done both SCROG and LST. All forms of training improve yield due to more even canopy and more efficient use of light, but SCROG improves way more then LST. If additional support from SCROG have no impact on yield then just LST or topping should improve yield same way as SCROG does. That is not the case. Yes indeed too big buds will sometimes break branch but plant predicting that will slow down "fattening", although sometimes it won't manage to slow it down enough. And yes it is directly correlated with genetics, some strains are more common to break branches due to different flower/leaf/steams ratio then other for both SCROG will give you more yield then just LST mostly because of sending plant a message that it can grow buds without limit, support is there. 

I've done the same thing at some point I removed SCROG from under the plant, I end up with very weak stems that couldn't hold buds. I think this combined with low yielding strain, some feeding mistakes and maybe temperature added a bit to it (it is within reasonable range but not in optimal, try to reach 24-29 ). 

AK47 would be excellent choice. My personal favoured strain that gives massive yield, very low smell, great quality and strength is Northern Light. My mistakes affected time to time yield on other plants but never on this one. You can't go wrong with it, not only it is one of easiest strains to grow but in terms of yield still beats most of new strains. Personally I also love effect and strength but this is very personal, some ppl like hybrids or sativa plants more. If you don't like almost pure Indica just google strains that are easy to grow there is more and more choice in this department. 

Fix mistakes (temperature, feeding schedule, and either go all the way with SCROG or all the way without), take easy to grow strain and your next grow will be way better it is a learning curve, we all had bad and average grows in the past. 

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Hello friend, 

 

 

Yes, they are small buds, no doubt. 

Sometimes it's just genetics, some are not very productive genetic if subjected to cultivation techniques as SCROG or CROPPING. 

 

I think your problem is a set of problems: 

 

- Food (possible problem of saturation of salts or lack of proper nutrients) 

 

- Genetic (some varieties do not respond as well to SCROG techniques) 

 

- Phenotype (some phenotypes are more productive than others, often happens)

 

 


Personally I think SCROG is the best way to have many good buds with few plants. 

 

But SCROG is not good for all varieties. AK47, Critical, Skunk, White Lemon ..... there are many highly branched varieties that respond well to SCROG. 

 

Another aspect is nutrition. I recommend using coconut Powder Feeding. 

 

Coco is very good for a fast and very vigorous growth, I love it. 

Powder Feeding this tested by me on many crops and coconut works perfectly on earth, but the growth rate, recommend coconut.

 

 

About lighting, no problem to mix LED and sodium, is not negative.

 

 

regards! 

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I've done both SCROG and LST. All forms of training improve yield due to more even canopy and more efficient use of light, but SCROG improves way more then LST. If additional support from SCROG have no impact on yield then just LST or topping should improve yield same way as SCROG does. That is not the case. Yes indeed too big buds will sometimes break branch but plant predicting that will slow down "fattening", although sometimes it won't manage to slow it down enough. And yes it is directly correlated with genetics, some strains are more common to break branches due to different flower/leaf/steams ratio then other for both SCROG will give you more yield then just LST mostly because of sending plant a message that it can grow buds without limit, support is there. 

I've done the same thing at some point I removed SCROG from under the plant, I end up with very weak stems that couldn't hold buds. I think this combined with low yielding strain, some feeding mistakes and maybe temperature added a bit to it (it is within reasonable range but not in optimal, try to reach 24-29 ). 

AK47 would be excellent choice. My personal favoured strain that gives massive yield, very low smell, great quality and strength is Northern Light. My mistakes affected time to time yield on other plants but never on this one. You can't go wrong with it, not only it is one of easiest strains to grow but in terms of yield still beats most of new strains. Personally I also love effect and strength but this is very personal, some ppl like hybrids or sativa plants more. If you don't like almost pure Indica just google strains that are easy to grow there is more and more choice in this department. 

Fix mistakes (temperature, feeding schedule, and either go all the way with SCROG or all the way without), take easy to grow strain and your next grow will be way better it is a learning curve, we all had bad and average grows in the past. 

 

Hey bud. great input ty. 

"The bud is growing so its will be heavier later on  (ofc!!) so the plants defense to this is to stop making large buds. It's even logic if you think about it haha. 

I Now even more regret the day where I decided to remove the screen. Damn! 

 

Ur the second if not third to recommend AK-47. So theres gotta be something about it haha;) The way we picked those strains "  I want to smoke this, and i want to smoke this" 

 

We live in a country where this is illigal and everyone is smoking import hashish so this was the first chance to touch some of those strains from "over there" that we've heard so much about :D

 

Peace

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Hello friend, 
 
 
Yes, they are small buds, no doubt. 
Sometimes it's just genetics, some are not very productive genetic if subjected to cultivation techniques as SCROG or CROPPING. 
 
I think your problem is a set of problems: 
 
- Food (possible problem of saturation of salts or lack of proper nutrients) 
 
- Genetic (some varieties do not respond as well to SCROG techniques) 
 
- Phenotype (some phenotypes are more productive than others, often happens)
 
 
Personally I think SCROG is the best way to have many good buds with few plants. 
 
But SCROG is not good for all varieties. AK47, Critical, Skunk, White Lemon ..... there are many highly branched varieties that respond well to SCROG. 
 
Another aspect is nutrition. I recommend using coconut Powder Feeding. 
 
Coco is very good for a fast and very vigorous growth, I love it. 
Powder Feeding this tested by me on many crops and coconut works perfectly on earth, but the growth rate, recommend coconut.
 
 
About lighting, no problem to mix LED and sodium, is not negative.
 
 
regards! 

 

 

 

Hello friend, 
 
 
Yes, they are small buds, no doubt. 
Sometimes it's just genetics, some are not very productive genetic if subjected to cultivation techniques as SCROG or CROPPING. 
 
I think your problem is a set of problems: 
 
- Food (possible problem of saturation of salts or lack of proper nutrients) 
 
- Genetic (some varieties do not respond as well to SCROG techniques) 
 
- Phenotype (some phenotypes are more productive than others, often happens)
 
 
Personally I think SCROG is the best way to have many good buds with few plants. 
 
But SCROG is not good for all varieties. AK47, Critical, Skunk, White Lemon ..... there are many highly branched varieties that respond well to SCROG. 
 
Another aspect is nutrition. I recommend using coconut Powder Feeding. 
 
Coco is very good for a fast and very vigorous growth, I love it. 
Powder Feeding this tested by me on many crops and coconut works perfectly on earth, but the growth rate, recommend coconut.
 
 
About lighting, no problem to mix LED and sodium, is not negative.
 
 
regards! 

 

Hey man. In veg fase I could feel that two of the plants did respond diffrent to the scrog. And yea the powder feeding looks hard to fuck up, even for the Frank haha! 

ty for feedback

 

On my next grow i will definitely get some of that powder feeding AND some seeds from greenhouse or strainhunters!

Right now i have the o.g presidential from royal queen seeds and when i went back to their website to find more specific info on THIS strain. I found out they had deleted it from their store along with all info about it and so on. That was so lame i thought haha.

 

I should definitely have reached out to all the people here on the forum earlier on it has been a great help to have 100 eyes instead of just 2! 

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Hey bud. great input ty. 

"The bud is growing so its will be heavier later on  (ofc!!) so the plants defense to this is to stop making large buds. It's even logic if you think about it haha. 

I Now even more regret the day where I decided to remove the screen. Damn! 

 

Ur the second if not third to recommend AK-47. So theres gotta be something about it haha;) The way we picked those strains "  I want to smoke this, and i want to smoke this" 

 

We live in a country where this is illigal and everyone is smoking import hashish so this was the first chance to touch some of those strains from "over there" that we've heard so much about :D

 

Peace

I would say that you can't go wrong with any seeds from Serious Seeds but they are extremely expensive. I've seen few AK47 grows and I myself grew White Russian from them (AK47 x White Widow) and it is both excellent to grow and smoke (GHS got the same cross under name Kalashnikova). However if you don't want to spend so much then maybe go with AK48 from Nirvana, it should be same genetics really but for much cheaper price. Also White Rhino from GHS is legendary strain that is very reasonably priced and should be easy to grow.

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Try to get your temps a little bit higher next time too ;) The production of trichomes, terpenes, and even the size of the buds are always depending on temps, 22º is way to low to grow the cannabis, they will grow and stay healthy but you will not get the best out of it like this, try to keep a minimum of 24º in the day, you can go up to 25-26º withtou problem, some strain actually prefer it like this, and If you listen to Soma, i believe he say he almost always grow at 27º, it is for him the best temp range.

 

Cheers hope to see a nice grow journal for the next sesh :)

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I would say that you can't go wrong with any seeds from Serious Seeds but they are extremely expensive. I've seen few AK47 grows and I myself grew White Russian from them (AK47 x White Widow) and it is both excellent to grow and smoke (GHS got the same cross under name Kalashnikova). However if you don't want to spend so much then maybe go with AK48 from Nirvana, it should be same genetics really but for much cheaper price. Also White Rhino from GHS is legendary strain that is very reasonably priced and should be easy to grow.

I have heard others say that serious seeds should have the "real" ak-47 seeds. But the price seem to be real too haha :-) good advice on strains..

The ak47 on serious seeds isnt stated as autoflower, would kalash from ghs grow faster?

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Try to get your temps a little bit higher next time too ;) The production of trichomes, terpenes, and even the size of the buds are always depending on temps, 22º is way to low to grow the cannabis, they will grow and stay healthy but you will not get the best out of it like this, try to keep a minimum of 24º in the day, you can go up to 25-26º withtou problem, some strain actually prefer it like this, and If you listen to Soma, i believe he say he almost always grow at 27º, it is for him the best temp range.

 

Cheers hope to see a nice grow journal for the next sesh :)

I see what ur saying i've heard alot about special plants gettig cold temps and then making alot extra trichomes from the coldness. Which then must be a myth. Anyways i have tuned up temps in grow room by now :--)

Hope i will have time to make grow journal on next;)

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I have heard others say that serious seeds should have the "real" ak-47 seeds. But the price seem to be real too haha :-) good advice on strains..

The ak47 on serious seeds isnt stated as autoflower, would kalash from ghs grow faster?

 

I don't grow autos but I don't think it impacts speed of growth, autos will finish faster because they will flower almost as soon as they are sexually mature, while photo can be flowered whenever you feel like you got size/shape of plant that you wanted by switching to 12/12 light schedule. Autos start flowering almost instantly as they reach sexual maturity (20-30 days) and finish in around 100 days (including this 20 days vegging) most of the time. With photos unless you doing 12/12 from seed you will most likely veg a bit longer and flowering can take a bit longer too. So yes auto will finish faster but yield, strength and size of plant might be affected a bit comparing to photo version, also you don't have impact on size or shape of this plant since often they react badly to training or other forms of stress but now it is strongly strain depended.

 

Even if it is the same exactly genetics and very stable it usually got at least 2-3 different phenos (or more if it is not very stable), so if you take photoperiod plant from two different companies and start from seed there is no way of telling which one will finish or grow faster. Only time you will know exactly finishing time and growth rate is if you start from clones, and grew this particular clone before (or someone did and told you :D). Saying all that I grew my Northern Lights from two different breeders (Nirvana and Homegrown Fantaseeds) both were very similar but one finished a bit later, both are very similar smoke but NL is extremely old and very stable genetics.  

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hi,


You got some hi -tech equipment and powerfull light....when u get u skills up...U gonna be a Rockman!

Nice grow...nice set-up....is that the half of the plant? It' looks for me like it was harvest and then left the bottom flowers to go ahead for another 2 weeks.

Rooten buds have very bad taste.( U know what U ar doing :spiteful: )

Keeep grownig.

Best Luck!!!

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I don't grow autos but I don't think it impacts speed of growth, autos will finish faster because they will flower almost as soon as they are sexually mature, while photo can be flowered whenever you feel like you got size/shape of plant that you wanted by switching to 12/12 light schedule. Autos start flowering almost instantly as they reach sexual maturity (20-30 days) and finish in around 100 days (including this 20 days vegging) most of the time. With photos unless you doing 12/12 from seed you will most likely veg a bit longer and flowering can take a bit longer too. So yes auto will finish faster but yield, strength and size of plant might be affected a bit comparing to photo version, also you don't have impact on size or shape of this plant since often they react badly to training or other forms of stress but now it is strongly strain depended.

 

Even if it is the same exactly genetics and very stable it usually got at least 2-3 different phenos (or more if it is not very stable), so if you take photoperiod plant from two different companies and start from seed there is no way of telling which one will finish or grow faster. Only time you will know exactly finishing time and growth rate is if you start from clones, and grew this particular clone before (or someone did and told you :D). Saying all that I grew my Northern Lights from two different breeders (Nirvana and Homegrown Fantaseeds) both were very similar but one finished a bit later, both are very similar smoke but NL is extremely old and very stable genetics.  

 

Ahhh and that ofc leaves me with no chance of training the plant through veggie fase. 

I did train these plants for some time in veg. And I see the power of it, how ever it would properly go even more nuts if i put it in a hydro bucket. 

 Would that mean if I ordered 5 seeds (one pack of same strain) there would be like 1 or 2 great genetics? 

If this is the case then I should really strating taking clones for my next grow? Like now. :O 

Thank you brother much appreciated

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I don't grow autos but I don't think it impacts speed of growth, autos will finish faster because they will flower almost as soon as they are sexually mature, while photo can be flowered whenever you feel like you got size/shape of plant that you wanted by switching to 12/12 light schedule. Autos start flowering almost instantly as they reach sexual maturity (20-30 days) and finish in around 100 days (including this 20 days vegging) most of the time. With photos unless you doing 12/12 from seed you will most likely veg a bit longer and flowering can take a bit longer too. So yes auto will finish faster but yield, strength and size of plant might be affected a bit comparing to photo version, also you don't have impact on size or shape of this plant since often they react badly to training or other forms of stress but now it is strongly strain depended.

 

Even if it is the same exactly genetics and very stable it usually got at least 2-3 different phenos (or more if it is not very stable), so if you take photoperiod plant from two different companies and start from seed there is no way of telling which one will finish or grow faster. Only time you will know exactly finishing time and growth rate is if you start from clones, and grew this particular clone before (or someone did and told you :D). Saying all that I grew my Northern Lights from two different breeders (Nirvana and Homegrown Fantaseeds) both were very similar but one finished a bit later, both are very similar smoke but NL is extremely old and very stable genetics.  

Ahhh and that ofc leaves me with no chance of training the plant through veggie fase. 

I did train these plants for some time in veg. And I see the power of it, how ever it would properly go even more nuts if i put it in a hydro bucket. 

 Would that mean if I ordered 5 seeds (one pack of same strain) there would be like 1 or 2 great genetics? 

If this is the case then I should really strating taking clones for my next grow? Like now. :O 

Thank you brother much appreciated

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you have problem with roots, maybe too many water and not enough oxigen or not enough nutritients. Change you soil for next grow.

 

I have been tripping about the roots aswell for the last couple of days the soil seems rock hard no matter what i try. 

I've read so much stuff about the roots are the most importing thing during the grow etc etc. So this must not be very good ;s... Here is picture of the soil I have been using 

lpF062dE.png

 

 

hi,

You got some hi -tech equipment and powerfull light....when u get u skills up...U gonna be a Rockman!

Nice grow...nice set-up....is that the half of the plant? It' looks for me like it was harvest and then left the bottom flowers to go ahead for another 2 weeks.

Rooten buds have very bad taste.( U know what U ar doing :spiteful: )

Keeep grownig.

Best Luck!!!

 

Thank you for your support my friend :D I didn't harvest anything yet tho ,they are just like kinda flat. :D

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Those Hesi nutes have a ton of salts, pH correctors, and other stuff that are going to create a less than healthy soil situation over time. Salt build-ups and low-levels of, or no soil-life at all. Unhappy looking plants could be a sign of a less than optimum soil environment. Even the organic ones are loaded with organic acids which can be as harsh on your soil as synthetics can be if you aren't careful.
  (If you really like this nutrient regimen consider going all soil-less.)

 

Also consider installing an R/O filter if you aren't already using one, and adding a Mycorrhizae product(Great White, ZHO, Orca...) to some of your plain waterings.  

Looks like a barren soil-situation for your roots, if you are going to stick with soil, consider some sort of mulch layer to help with that. It can be made from any number of things. You can get creative and customize it. Just be sure to research your ingredients first.

Not to be too preachy about micro-organisms but if you keep them happy and healthy, they will keep your plants happy and healthy.

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Ahhh and that ofc leaves me with no chance of training the plant through veggie fase. 

I did train these plants for some time in veg. And I see the power of it, how ever it would properly go even more nuts if i put it in a hydro bucket. 

 Would that mean if I ordered 5 seeds (one pack of same strain) there would be like 1 or 2 great genetics? 

If this is the case then I should really strating taking clones for my next grow? Like now. :O

Thank you brother much appreciated

How many good genetics you get depends on luck and how stabilized is strain that you are buying. Sometimes you can get 3 good phenos from 5 seeds and sometimes 1 on 20 seeds, depends from breeder/strain/luck.

 

Just remember you can't clone autoflowers. Except that cloning is better idea if you have room for mother plant, every time you get very predictable results (same yield, flowering time, same type of quality). 

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