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Green House Kush Test compared against Kaia Kush, each comparing Short Powder Feeding against Advanced Hydroponics Nutrients by Cannabissapean


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24 Jan

Today is heavy LST day for the upper-most branches of the GHKs.  They have grown long enough that they can be effectively tied down to the edge of the pot.

 

But first, I will share a trick.  I found it necessary from time-to-time to remove the drippers; it makes it easier to clean away trimmings in the inside of each bush.  But sometimes removal of the 4mm feeder-tube from the 4mm initial Tee results in a jerky shock that could damage the plant or cause the Ton Balls to be strewn about.

I discovered that an adapter 4mm-to-3mm works wonderful as a quick-disconnect in a 4mm tube system.  The 3mm side fits snugly enough that it doesn't leak even under the slight pressure of this feeder system.  It is easier to disconnect from the 3mm side for more convenient removal of the plant and its dripper intact from the lamp area during cleaning or individual care sessions.Image050.jpg

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Neat, huh?

 

Here's GHK1 PF after its top-branch LST.        Oops, I split the top.    (Don't fret.  She will make it fine.)

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24 Jan

 

Here's GHK4 AH      before...Image063.jpg

 

and   after...Image064.jpg

 

Then the girls are put back under the light to recover and respond.Image066.jpg

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Clone GHK1-S1 in soil now and sitting under a sprayed clear plastic cup to keep it very moist.Image069.jpg

 

Clone GHK3-S1 still cruising along.Image070.jpg

 

Clone-hopeful KK2-S1 sittiing in the bubble-cloner...Image079.jpg

 

And her mom KK2 AH and the place from where the clone was cut.

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31 Jan     (after 84 days in Vegg for the oldest plants)

After harvesting the Northern Lights out of the flowering tent, I cleaned-out both tents.  I trimmed away the inner leaves and branches from the GHK and KK test plants, and I put them into the flowering tent.  But I shall leave them on 18/6 for about a week to allow them to adjust to the ebb-n-flow system before the switch-over to 12/12.

The GHKs are to the left and right.  The KKs are in the middle, KK2AH is in the foreground.  KK1PF is in the rear.  Remember that KK1PF was that pitiful seedling that took almost a month to produce its first set of fan leaves, and she took about 65 days just to be set into her rockwool cube.  Look at her now.

Each reservoir is 30 Liters and each is mixed one more time as for late veg stage.  After a couple weeks, when I make the flip to 12/12, I will then mix the nutrients for flowering.

The left reservoir serves Powder-feeding nutrients to the rear tub of plants conntaining l-r GHK1PF, KK1PF, GHK3PF. 

The right reservoir serves Advanced Hydroponics nutrients to the forward tub of plants l-r GHK2AH, KK2AH, GHK4AH.

These 6 plants are the contest ladies. 

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And look at the size of those Kaia Kush fan-leaves...

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The clean-up trimming of these ladies produced a bunch of clone-possibilities, so I soaked them in water, dipped them in Schutz rooting hormone powder, and stuck them directly into soil.  Let's see how this method compares to the bubble-cloner.  I spray these clone babies 2 or 3 times a day with distilled water.  I try to keep the veg tent around 24°C and 70-80% relative humidity.  All the clones and plants currently in the veg tent are not officially part of the contest.  Just including the pics for your enjoyment.

New additions:  Starting some Lorenzo Pepper seeds (6).  They are older seeds, so they might not germinate.

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3 Feb       (Flip after 87 days of Vegg for the oldest plants)

I checked on the Green House Kushes and the Kaia Kushes and noticed that they have responded really well to their new home in the Flowering tent and sitting in the Ebb-n-Flow feeding system.  They look as if they have started another explosion of growth.  If I had unlimited head-space, I would enjoy to just let them expand again.  But, this tent is all I can offer them, and I must allow room for the bloom-stretching.

Therefore, I have decided to flip the photoperiod to 12/12 today.

Here's a few pictures of the Test Specimens on the day of photoperiod flip.

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It will be very interesting to see how they react in bloom. LST strongly marked in plants, I have very curious to see how it works :)

 

Thanks for so much info and updating, is perfect for watching the progress.

 

Greetings!

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Thank you Old Head and Jose. 

 

Quick update without pictures:  Day 4 Flower, I disconnected the power plug to the lamps in the flowering tent.  I will leave it disconnected for about 2 or 3 days to give the plants a 48 to 60 hour period of absolute darkness.  Planned light deprivation, followed by standard 12/12.  This should cause a hyper flowering response.

 

Watch this, my friends...

 

I saw this demonstrated by some Emerald Triangle growers on Youtube.  I had tried it with success on a previous grow, so I want to try it here on this grow for your enjoyment.

Enjoy...

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Day 7 Flower

After 2+ days in the dark, I re-connected the lamp circuits in the flower tent to 12/12.  Here are a few pictures of the result of the extended darkness.  Notice the new growth is more yellow than the older leaves.  In a few hours the first 12 Hour period of light after the deprivation will begin automatically, controlled by my self-made "Dual-Tent/Feeding-CO2-Lighting Controller".Image000.jpg

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By the way, I'm thinking of beginning to produce my "Dual-Tent/Feeding-CO2-Lighting Controller" on a serial production basis.  I designed it to work on 115V AC / 60Hz or on 230V AC / 50Hz.  I designed it to be very user friendly, allowing one to use daily timers or weekly timers or both, depending on whether you are feeding to soil or to hydroponics.  It currently allows 2-Speed control of the exhaust fan in conjunction with a Fan-Off Mode for CO2 injection.  Would anyone be interested in one?  If so, send me a private message in the Messenger on my Profile page.  I can also design other control functions into it as well.  Just tell me what you want...

 

Andddd, someone had asked me in an earlier post in this thread to describe the LED lamps I am using in the Flowering tent.  OK, I shall produce some pictures and give you a good description in an upcoming post.

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marvgk,

The comparison is currently underway in THIS Green House Kush Test.  I'm not sure, but there may have been other members who have performed similar comparison tests in the past; maybe they had posted their results.  But I think that my thread is the only CURRENT thread in this forum running a straight one-for-one comparison of Powder-Feeding against another manufacturer's nutrients.

 

In my opinion, at the current time, there has been very little difference in performance between PF and Advanced Hydro.  During the early vegetative phase, it seemed that some of the GHKs under PF had developed a bit faster than those under Advanced Hydro, but as time passed, it seemed that they all evened themselves out.  But as of 9 days ago, the plants had entered the phase where, potentially, any difference should begin to show itself - the Flowering phase.

 

Whereas the Powder-Feeding formula remains the same for Flowering as it is for Vegg (except that the PF schema calls for monitoring and adjusting of EC), the Advanced Hydro nutrient schema DOES change.  For AH flowering, less of 1-Grow (Nitrogen-base) is scheduled, and more of 2-Bloom (Phosphor-base) and more of 3-Micro (Trace element-base) as well as Bloom Excellerator are scheduled.  These boosted nutrients for the AH specimen group during the flowering phase could produce different results as might be seen in the PF specimen group.

 

In short, it is still too early in the test to draw any concrete conclusions.  But I will admit that I am not looking at my EC values at all.  Additionally, I am not holding my pH in either of the reservoirs strictly in the optimum range for hydro- which is 5,8 to 6,0.  The pH of my solutions tends to rise with time, and often upon testing, I discover my solutions sitting at 7,0 to 7,8 sometimes.  When I do discover pH that far out, I do lower it using Nitric acid 38% to my target of 5,8.  Sometimes I overshoot into the ~5,2 range, or after achieving 6,2 I am happy with leaving it there.  Either way, my experience is that with time, the pH will have risen when I test again in 2 or 3 days.  I admit further that whereas the Nitric Acid is the optimum pH-Down to use for Vegg, it would be better during the flowering phase to use Phosphoric Acid.  But I dont have any of that.

 

I did lower the pH in both reservoirs last night.  The PF reservoir required comparitively less ph-Down than did the AH reservoir.  If one was to compare visually the two reservoirs, one would see right away that the AH solution is much darker than the PF reservoir.  This could be an indication that the AH solution has more particles in solution (higher PPM) than the PF solution.  And that could explain the difference in the amount of pH-corrective fluid required.  I imagine that a solution with a higher PPM might require more corrective fluid to shift its pH.

 

Now that brings up another question.  If I mix Powder-Feeding according to the scheduled schema, and I have already adjusted my pH to the optimum level, but my EC remains still too low, what product should I use to increase the EC without messing up my pH or over-fertilizing my plants?  Hmmmmm...      If anyone has the answer to that, I am very interested to learn.

 

So, please stay tuned for the comparison results.

 

I thank you for your interest and your questions.

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Hi, i have recently read an artical on 2 diffent acids used for ph adjustment, 1- Nirtric acid which is best

used in vegative stage as it is N based, 2- Phosphric acid which is best in flower stage as it is P based.

With that in mind we can see how NPK ratios can be slighty altered by the difference in which acid

we use. I hope there is someone around that can give more info on this and wether or not it makes

that much difference.

Now to your question, i have always been under the belief that EC should always be set before

adjusting PH.

PEACE

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Well, i'm not sure that you can rise the Ec without mezzing with your Ph. If you need more Ec use more powder feed. Adjust the Ph little at the time and wait for the result.
As an example. When i use hydro i adjust Ph pretty often.
Sometimes because of what i do in that moment and sometimes because the water tank need a refill after thirsty plants(But then they also need some extra feed first as well).

It's normal and all growers need to do it.  But there is a difference between brands of feed. Some brands like Advance nutes or some of the Canna bottles do keep a pretty stable Ec/Ph. Mind you, i have not tried that many different feeds so i can't speak for them all.
Other brands need adjustment every day. I have also seen that the bigger the water rez, the easier it was to keep stable values(at least for me).
I also saw that Gh powder feed was weaker than i thought it to be and with a big tank i needed more powder than the bag said. (anyone else seen this?)

I would not worry about overfeeding your plants by adjustment alone. The Ec meter will tell you what you need to know. Just because you add more of something does not mean you will overfeed. If you already had good values and then added more Powder, yes then you would overfeed.
What i liked best was the powder feed in veg and advanced in bloom. It worked great for me. 

We all have different water quality, way of handling the plants or just lack of experience with a certain brand. All this will also effect your result.
I strongly urge you to use the Ec meter even if you say "
But I will admit that I am not looking at my EC values at all" it is so damn key, as well with monitoring the Ph.

In soil you can often use your "feel" and it is not as important. If you grown one plant in soil and had a good result you prob can do the next grow as good or even better if you go about the same way. (omg i keep on ranting haha)

I rant because i like this thread. Compared grows has always sparked an interest. I even did a powder feed Vs Advance nute grow just to see what would happen.
What makes this a nice thread to follow for me, is because we seem to get different results even when we are kind of similar in our approach.  

I know this is not the ideal answer and perhaps not what you were looking for. Still, it's my thoughts and perhaps you can find something of use. I would love to hear Bams view on this and perhaps Jan or Jose? Perhaps someone else have some good input. I smell a wonderful thread in the making ;)
 

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Hi, i have recently read an artical on 2 diffent acids used for ph adjustment, 1- Nirtric acid which is best

used in vegative stage as it is N based, 2- Phosphric acid which is best in flower stage as it is P based.

With that in mind we can see how NPK ratios can be slighty altered by the difference in which acid

we use. I hope there is someone around that can give more info on this and wether or not it makes

that much difference.

Now to your question, i have always been under the belief that EC should always be set before

adjusting PH.

PEACE

I agree, i always set the Ec before i do the Ph(unless i need to balance Ph for some reason)

I would love to read that article if you can find it. It sounds like some kind of logic to it with different acids. Pm me the link if you still have it buddy.

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With PF I found it extremely important to measure EC + ph, since the solution of N,P+K varies with theph values. That makes up fr a one part solution vs the usual 2 part systeme other brands opt for. Second. The key to get healthy grow is to flush once in a while-check your feeding scheme, when to flush. Also measure the output vs the input while flushing. That way you make sure to get rid of any nutrient lock. In Coco i noticed that after each watering without feeding the plants looked extremely happy. They use up the fertilizer locked in the medium.These tricks are the key to get the most out of the GH Powder Feed. If you use it just like any other fert you will get just the basic supply other brands offer, too. If you follow that rooute you do not need any boosters. You can use some Root Juice in the begining or some sea weed or Super Vit but you can grow nice + healthy plants with just the one formula feeding. Cheaper and safer but check EC + ph for hydro or Coco or simply if you want the best tasting/aromatic buds.

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I agree, i always set the Ec before i do the Ph(unless i need to balance Ph for some reason)

I would love to read that article if you can find it. It sounds like some kind of logic to it with different acids. Pm me the link if you still have it buddy.

i remember advanced hydroponics of holland has separate ph down for grow and bloom just like head mentioned more P acid in the bloom version and more nitric acid in grow version but when me and my friend grew with that we only bought the bloom ph down and used it for all stages  also dutch pro makes separate for grow and bloom with more nitrates in the grow version

 

personally i use the general hydroponics ph down liquid. itworks great for all stages with out raising the ec at all really and it doesnt give the nitrates but ammonium and phosphates.  phosphoric acid, Ammonium dihydrogenorthophosphate and citric acid, a bit different mix from other brands

it is possible that nitric acid might bring the N ppm's too high in flower with N sensitive plants but some might be ok

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  • 2 weeks later...

OK,  have ordered an EC meter.  It will come in a package that also includes another pH meter, as well as 1/2 liter each of pH-Down Grow, pH-Down Bloom and pH-Up frrom Advanced Hydroponics.

I have also ordered 50 Liters Plagron Grow soil with Perlite, 40 Liters Worm-Castings Humus, 5-Liter pH-Down Bloom, 1-Liter Advanced Hydroponics 2-Bloom, and 1-Kilo of Powder-Feeding Hybrid.

I have also ordered a digital USB microscope. 

The EC meter should help me to more precisely adjust my nutrients, espeecially the powder-feeding.

The Plagron soil and Worm-Castings Humus will make fine amendments to my soil mix.  The pH-Up and Down, self-expllanatory.  The 2-Bloom is needed in order to complete this GH Kush Test without interruption.  And the Kilo of GH Powder-Feeding Hybrid is for future grows.

The digital USB microscope should help me to post some better pictures for you here in the near future, especially since the GH Kush and Kaia Kush plants have begun their flowers.

(Thanks to www.Growmart.de)   

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The plants are growing like crazy in the Flowering Tent.  Here are a few pictures I took on or about 10 Feb 2016.

The Kaia Kush is really surprising me.  I did not know what to expect in this comparison, but I must say, the Kaia Kush is outgrowing the GreenHouse Kush (vegetatively).  The Kaia leaves are enormous.  They are throwing consistently 9 leaflets in the fan leaves, and recently, they have begun throwing 11 leaflets per fan leaf. 

In the pictures, the Kaias are in the middle background and in the middle foreground.  The GreenHouse Kushes are seen to the left and to the right.

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Within 6 days after taking these pictures, the plants grew up into the LED lamps.  The top buds got burned on a couple plants.  That has forced me to totally re-arrange the flower tent. More pictures to come.

So, as the flowers begin to develop, we'll compare them as well.

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